Carcassonne Central

I think it would be a good idea to collect outstanding questions to HiG.

I already had contact with Matt about this.

He agreed with the Idea, and that they could be translated and send to HiG in due time.

So if you have outstanding questions uncertainties etc: this is the place  :)

Michiel (mdjvz)

Well, I would like to find out a definitive ruling on the status of playing the pig when connecting a farmer into a field containing a barn. Can a pig be played (legally at the moment there is nothing to stop this) or does the barn prevent the use of playing the pig in this case? Tiberius. :)

Since the last round of questions, I've been including a special key word in threads where we thought escalating to HiG was necessary. If you search for this key word, you will find all the threads with loose ends. The current key word is "Tiberius". It is a word unlikely to crop up in regular conversation, so no irrelevant results should crop up. The key word will change after each round of questions is submitted to HiG.

Great idea. As an aside, I was very busy today getting ready for my Tiberius kitchen renovations...

There's a whole host of question marks and ambiguities over the Count expansion and the rules for bringing followers from Carcassonne to completed...or is it scored...features.

These form the majority of the most recent threads created in this forum so it shouldn't be too hard to find them. ;)

I tried to summarize the questions, so far:

1// When a farm scores beacause is connected to a barn thru the placement of a tile, or because a barn is placed on the farm, it scores immediately according to the rules of M&A. Does "immediately" REALLY mean immediately (so before the dragon can move around, or any tower capturing takes place.), or does it mean " immediately - in the scoring phase of this turn",  so that means just after the tile is placed?

2// Prevous Q/A: "Question: Can a follower be moved from Carcassonne to a farm with a barn—and if so, how many points
does a player earn (1 or 3)? Answer: Yes, that is allowed: the farmer will then be scored immediately, and so
scores only 1 point per city and is (importantly) not on farm during the final scoring proper".  This Q/A lead to some speculation on what was precisely meant: during mid-game deployment? (when a barn is just placed? ) or at the end-game deployment phase?

3// Are followers in the city of Carcassonne deployed when a feature is completed, or when it is being scored?

4// (As a result of questions WHEN (& how) followers from Carc. may be moved to a feature, and WHEN wagons may be moved, in the special case when multiple features are scored during one turn).
Is the scoring sequence:

    1. Tile-placing player selects one of the completed features to score
    2. Take turns around the table moving meeples from City of Carc to that feature (if you wish and rules otherwise allow)
    3. Determine majorities, determine fairy bonus, resolve cloister/shrine challenges, calculate scores for that feature and move markers
    4. Move any wagon(s) on that feature - resolving multiple wagons by turns as per rules.
    5. Player selects the next feature and repeat from step 2

OR is it:

First: Take turns around the table moving meeples from City of Carc to any or all scoring features resulting from the placement of the tile (if you wish and rules otherwise allow). This would occur rather like the way it is described in the rules for the end of the game.

    1. Tile-placing player selects feature to score
    2. Determine majorities, determine fairy bonus, resolve cloister/shrine challenges, calculate scores for that feature and move markers
    3. Select next feature and repeat from step 1

Last: Move any wagon(s) on the features - resolving multiple wagons by turns as per rules.

5// Rules: "The mayor may be deployed to a city in which there is currently no knight or mayor". What about deploying a mayor if a wagon is already in the city? There is no mention anywhere that a wagon in a city is considered a knight?

6// When a player connects his farm with a barn, is he allowed to play a pig on the connecting tile before the points for the farm are counted? This way he would receive 2 i.o. 1 point for every city)

Maybe it needs a little fine tuning  ;D, but it's a start,

Mdjvz

Seeing as Matt is working on the latest CAR, now would be a good time to ressurect this thread.

This queston needs a slight rewording:

When a player connects his farm to a farm containg a barn, is he allowed to play a pig on the connecting tile before the points for the farm are counted? This way he would receive 2 i.o. 1 point for every city)


Edit: Sorry for the following quotes - just bringing everything together

I'm not sure if i've caught them all, and some of these may have already been answered (even duplicated earlier in this thread), but at least they are all in one place. If they have already been answered by HiG, then let us know which ones they are.

Some might need rewording, and there might be new ones needed, particularly as there have been a couple of new expansions released as of late.

Post your questions, however trivial they may seem for submission to HiG for answers!

Good work Joff  ;),  gathering all these extra questions.
I am happy to see the thread being "resurrected"!

Question: I draw and place a tile with a volcano on. The Dragon must immediately be moved to the tile. The rules state that I may not deploy a follower to the tile, but may deploy a Builder or a Pig. Can I place a Tower piece (a Tower piece is not a follower) as the rules prohibit playing a follower to the volcano tile just placed?

The reason I ask is that I have been digesting John Sweeny’s Carcassonne – Rules, Questions, FAQs, Clarification and the question came up: Can I place a tower block if I place a volcano tile? The answer given was: No. Placing a tower block is done instead of placing a follower. When you place the volcano tile you get to place the dragon on it and can not move a follower, so you can’t place the tower block either.

This seems to fly-in-the-face of the rules, as, if I was asked this question, I would say ‘yes, you can place a tower block as the prohibition is only for followers and even then it is only for followers played to the volcano tile itself’

In a similar vein to the last question:

Question: I draw and place a tile with a volcano on. The Dragon must immediately be moved to the tile. The rules state that I may not deploy a follower to the tile, but may deploy a Builder or a Pig. Can I place my Barn? The reason this is asked is that on a previous FAQ the Barn is regarded as a special figure, although it could also be counted as a follower. So what is the Barn’s status when a volcano tile is laid?

A previous FAQ asked that if two city walls were touching would the Wagon be permitted to drive from one to another. The answer given is that the wagon has to use roads to move. What about the ‘cloister within the city’ tile from P&D? Can the wagon ‘drive’ to the cloister (assuming the cloister is incomplete) once the city has been completed and scored?

Following on from Mdjvz’s original posting regarding unanswered questions; here they are collected together yet again. I am using the draft CAR version 5 for any footnote or page references:

1.   Are followers in the city of Carcassonne deployed when a feature is completed, or when it is being scored?

2.   (As a result of questions WHEN (& how) followers from Carcassonne may be moved to a feature, and WHEN wagons may be moved, in the special case when multiple features are scored during one turn).
Is the scoring sequence:

    1. Tile-placing player selects one of the completed features to score
    2. Take turns around the table moving meeples from City of Carcassonne to that feature (if you wish and rules otherwise allow)
    3. Determine majorities, determine fairy bonus, resolve cloister/shrine challenges, calculate scores for that feature and move markers
    4. Move any wagon(s) on that feature - resolving multiple wagons by turns as per rules.
    5. Player selects the next feature and repeat from step 2

OR is it:

First: Take turns around the table moving meeples from City of Carcassonne to any or all scoring features resulting from the placement of the tile (if you wish and rules otherwise allow). This would occur rather like the way it is described in the rules for the end of the game.

    1. Tile-placing player selects feature to score
    2. Determine majorities, determine fairy bonus, resolve cloister/shrine challenges, calculate scores for that feature and move markers
    3. Select next feature and repeat from step 1

Last: Move any wagon(s) on the features - resolving multiple wagons by turns as per rules.

3.   Previous FAQ (Footnote 78): Question: How does follower placement during the final scoring work? Answer: In principle very similarly to the way it works during the game. The 'trigger' for the final scoring is the player who placed the last tile and so ended the game. Beginning with the player on the left of the 'trigger' player, each player redeploys one of his or her followers from Carcassonne to an appropriate feature [meeples in castle can only be deployed to cities, and so on] on the board. Followers can also be redeployed to incomplete roads, cities, cloisters or farms, since these will also be scored at the end of the game. This process continues until no player can redeploy any more players from Carcassonne. The count still blocks the city quarter in which he is resident. Normally the player with the most followers in Carcassonne will be the one to redeploy the last figure.

The question is regarding the bold underlined part: What does this precisely mean? Sometimes it seems wise to refrain (for the moment) from putting meeples from Carcassonne to a feature and just wait to see what your opponent does and act accordingly. Because of this the end condition is not clear: player(s) might just wait for each other to play endlessly... A more logical way to define the end of the process would probably be:

“This process continues until all players have successively refrained from removing meeples from the city of Carcassonne.”

So if you are playing with 4 persons: the process is finished when 4 people in succession didn't retrieve a meeple from Carcassonne.

4.   It is my humble opinion that meeples can only be deployed to incomplete features. The answer from HiG regarding meeple deployment during final scoring is a little confusing.

(Footnote 78) Quote:
“Beginning with the player on the left of the 'trigger' player, each player redeploys one of his or her followers from the city of Carcassonne to an appropriate feature on the board. Followers can also be redeployed to incomplete roads, cities, cloisters or farms, since these will also be scored at the end of the game.”

It can be interpreted that meeples can be deployed to ANY feature, but I think that wasn't the intention. I think the first sentence was supposed to be in reference to the last tile played, not the entire board in general. This is the second time this has come up, and I think we need to get it resolved with HiG

5.   Previous FAQ (Footnote 184): "Question: Can a follower be moved from Carcassonne to a farm with a barn—and if so, how many points does a player earn (1 or 3)? Answer: Yes, that is allowed: the farmer will then be scored immediately, and so scores only 1 point per city and is (importantly) not on farm during the final scoring proper".  This FAQ leads to some speculation on what was precisely meant: during mid-game deployment? (when a barn is just placed? ) or at the end-game deployment phase?

6.   If someone adds a segment to a road or city where he has a Builder, therefore triggering the builder-activated double-turn, can the player place his Abbey tile instead of drawing a second tile?

7.   Rules (page 50): "The mayor may be deployed to a city in which there is currently no knight or mayor".

What about deploying a mayor if a wagon is already in the city? There is no mention anywhere that a wagon in a city is considered a knight?

8.   When a player connects his farm to a farm containing a barn, is he allowed to play a pig on the connecting tile before the points for the farm are counted? (This way he would receive 2 points instead of 1 point for every completed city within the farm).

9.   When a farm scores because it is connected to a barn through the placement of a tile, or because a barn is placed on the farm, it scores immediately according to the rules of Abbey and Mayor. Does "immediately" REALLY mean immediately (i.e. before the dragon can move around, or any tower capturing takes place.), or does it mean “immediately - in the scoring phase of this turn", so that means just after the tile is placed?

Matt; this has a consequence regarding Footnote 100 of the CAR:
“The RGG edition adds a clarification which contradicts the sequence described in the HiG edition and the FAQ: “If placement of the tile completes a feature, it is scored as normal. Then, the game is briefly interrupted while the Dragon moves.” So, according to the RGG edition of the Big Box, dragon movement occurs after scoring; according to HiG it occurs before scoring.”

This footnote tells us that the HiG rules have the Dragon moving before scoring takes place. Should it be that the farmers are scored before the Dragon moves then it might need rewording to reflect that.

10.   The rules of P&D state that, “If the player uses the tile to extend a city which is already occupied by one or more knights, the player may remove one knight (big or small) from the city and return it to its owner”. The rules and footnotes repeatedly say Knights. Can the princess seduce Wagons and Mayors deployed in the city?

11.   Question: I draw and place a tile with a volcano. The Dragon must immediately be moved to the tile. The rules state that I may not deploy a follower to the tile, but may deploy a Builder or a Pig. Can I place my Barn? The reason this is asked is that on a previous FAQ (Footnote 150) the Barn is regarded as a special figure, although it could also be counted as a follower. So what is the Barn’s status when a volcano tile is laid?

12.   A previous FAQ (Footnote 170) asked that if two city walls were touching would the Wagon be permitted to drive from one to another. The answer given is that the wagon has to use roads to move. What about the ‘cloister within the city’ tile from P&D? Can the wagon ‘drive’ to the cloister (assuming the cloister is incomplete) once the city has been completed and scored?*

13.   Can a Princess seduce the Monk occupying the ‘cloister within the city’ tile from P&D?

14.   Since pigs, builders and barns are not followers, will they be impacted by "Knock out – remove followers" or by "Seduction – follower exchange" from the catapult expansion. The Dragon eats pigs and builders! Would you apply the same logic to the catapult? For "Seduction – follower exchange", can you exchange a pig for a follower? Below are the rules from the Rio Grande website:

"Knock out – remove followers": When a follower is hit (touched) by a hurled token (the follower need not fall down!), the owner of the follower must take it back immediately, placing it in his play areas. If several followers are touched, all must return to their owners. If followers of the hurling player are touched, he must also take them back. If the token knocks one follower into another, the second follower must also be taken back. In this way, a chain reaction, involving several followers, can occur

"Seduction – follower exchange": The goal is to hurl this token so that it comes to rest on one or more landscape tiles on the map of Carcassonne you have been building. If it slides of f the map, it has no effect! If it does not come to rest on the map, the hurling player takes the token back and takes no action. If the token comes to rest on the map, then the players determine which opponent’s follower is closest to the token and may use the measuring board in case of doubt. The player, who hurled the token, may exchange one of his followers with this follower. He may use a follower in his play area or one already on the map. He returns the exchanged follower to its owner.”

15.   Does the "Fair symbol" from the catapult expansion split the farms? Two tiles in particular are problematic. One has two different city segments split in the middle by a fair symbol. This one seems obvious that it splits the farms. The other one has two different road segments split by a fair symbol. This one is less obvious since the "yellow sand ground" of the "Fair symbol" does not split the farm, it's the flag on top the tent on the fair symbol that splits the farm.

16.   What happens when a knock-out token touches or moves a non-follower?  Tower pieces, Count, Princess and Dragon come to mind.  Barns and pigs are playable non-followers... are those removed as well?

17.   What happens when a seduction token touches or lands nearest to a barns or a pig?  Can those be exchanged?

18.   How do the knock-out and seduction tokens interact with the followers in the City of Carcassonne?

19.   Can the follower being exchanged with the seduction token be different types of followers?  (i.e. can I exchange a small follower for my big follower or mayor or wagon?)

20.   Can the follower being exchanged with the seduction token be exchanged with a playable non-follower?  (i.e. can I exchange a farmer for my pig?  Can I exchange a follower on a tower with a tower piece?)

21.   Can the follower being exchanged with the seduction token be exchanged with a follower that may not legally be played there?  (i.e. can I exchange a farmer for my wagon?)

That completes the list for now. Again, I might well have missed a question or have a question listed that we already have had a response from HiG regarding. It might also have already been answered indirectly by another question. My apologies if I’ve missed anything. Some questions seem obvious, but it would be good to get an official response for. If there are any more, let us know.

While compiling this list, I realised that some questions had already been answered within the draft version 5 CAR. These were:

“Question: I draw and place a tile with a volcano. The Dragon must immediately be moved to the tile. The rules state that I may not deploy a follower to the tile, but may deploy a Builder or a Pig. Can I place a Tower piece (a Tower piece is not a follower) as the rules prohibit playing a follower to the volcano tile just placed?

(The reason I ask is that I have been digesting John Sweeny’s Carcassonne – Rules, Questions, FAQs, Clarification and the question came up: Can I place a tower block if I place a volcano tile? The answer given was: No. Placing a tower block is done instead of placing a follower. When you place the volcano tile you get to place the dragon on it and can not move a follower, so you can’t place the tower block either. This seems to fly-in-the-face of the rules, as, if I was asked this question, I would say ‘yes, you can place a tower block as the prohibition is only for followers and even then it is only for followers played to the volcano tile itself’)”

This has been clarified by HiG already. It appears in Footnote 99.

and

“If you have one knight in a besieged city, and another knight in another besieged city, and both besieged cities are adjacent to cloisters, can both knights escape at the end of your turn, or can you only choose to evacuate one per turn?”

This has been answered already. It appears as Footnote 84.

Edit: *Just had a look through the forums, and Deatheux made a very good point regarding the 'cloister within the city tile'. Deatheux says that the cloister on this tile is surrounded by grass. Well it certainly looks as if the grass surrounds the cloister, but does it?
(http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/cloister_within_city.jpg)
Footnote 172 tells us that the Wagon must use roads to move and the rules say that a Wagon cannot be deployed on a farm. Does the Wagon cross the 'farm' to occupy the cloister, or can it occupy because the cloister's steeple is not surrounded by 'farm', or can it not occupy the cloister at all as there are no roads connecting the cloister to the city?

Surely I'm not HiG, but I can tell my opinion based on CAR rules. So it may be wrong on some items, or not.

1: A feature needs to be completed in order to be scored (before the end of the game). But a feature may be completed and not scored at all. Footnote 73, page 30 says the followers can move from Carcassonne to empty just completed features (So, no scored). Rules say that followers move before the feature scoring. So, I guess the answer is "when a feature is completed".

2: On CAR nothing is written about followers from different players having to move to the same feature on the same turn around the table, so I guess each player can choose which feature they want to move his/her follower into.

3: Yes, the answer should be: "... when all players in succession didn't retrieve a meeple from Carcassonne" because any player may not want to move all of his/her meeples from Carcassonne.

4: My humble opinion is thatduring final scoring players may move followers to ANY feature on the board because the event associated to the trigger player is 'playing the last tile' rather than 'completing a feature' like on other cases. So the event is not associated to any feature in particular but with the whole board, except if the player completes any feature with the last tile, in which case players can only move to the feature(s) completed with the last tile.

5: Well, according to barn rules, it should be at any time.

6: Abbey rules say that an Abbey may be placed instead of drawing a tile, so I guess the answer is YES.

7: According to FAQ 170 there are some 'distractions' on this part of CAR. So I think this rule should read 'Mayor can only be deployed to a city where there are no knights, mayors and wagons'. I know this not mentioned in the rules, but I think it should because otherwise it wouldn't be logical to deploy a mayor where there is a wagon!...

As for the other questions, I'll post later...

If our starting assumptions are wrong, then our results will be wrong also.

The point of the questions are to get official feedback from HiG, and not our opinions. However, if a question has been answered already by HiG (either directly or indirectly) or the rules are quite clear already then we can cross it off the list. But please, do not post your opinions if there is some doubt over whether you are correct or not.

For example:

This is an opinion based on a FAQ regarding deployment of the Wagon. The point is here that the rules make it absolutely clear that a Mayor cannot be deployed to a city which contains a Knight. There is no mention of a Wagon, and the rules do not point out that Wagons can be deployed as Knights. They are deployed solely as Wagons. This would mean, in a game, if a player deploys a Mayor into a city where I have my Wagon, I would not be able to prevent it and have no argument when it comes to adjudication by the rules. This is why we need HiG to actually answer the question so it becomes part of the rules.

So we don't know if a Wagon counts as a Knight (when deployed to a city) yet? Strange, I always thought that it did, but I guess it really isn't clear.

Perhaps an additional question concerns the tile in which the fair splits the city. Since the rules state "A city is completed when its segments are fully encompassed by a city wall and there are no gaps within the city," would this tile effectively block the city it is connected to from being completed?

And something must be determined about this ghastly piece. Is this a big field? are those two roads on the sides? Does it separate the field (if so, it doesn't do it very well)? Ack!

I've bolded the section I'm questioning. According to Footnote 96 of the V5.0 of the CAR, don't you first resolve the cloister/shrine challenge and then, based upon the outcome, determine the fairy bonus?  

22. What happens if a mistake is noticed while playing (i.e a tile is placed that does not match up to a feature, or, a farmer has been placed in a field , knight in a city, etc. that already is occupied) that had happened some time before during the game?

23. Can towers capture followers in the city of carcassonne?

24. Can the wagon be placed on top of a tower, and if so, can the wagon drive directly from a city to the tower if they are adjoining?

25. Can the major be placed on top of a tower?

I believe that both questions have been answered in the negative somewhere on this site (although I can't find the place right now), but in this German/Austrian forum (http://www.spieletest.at/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5765&p=18697#p18697 (http://www.spieletest.at/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5765&p=18697#p18697)), the poster claims to have gotten an official answer from someone at HiG that ALL followers may be placed on towers.

Quote: "Gefolgsleute sind kleine und große Gefolgsleute, Bürgermeister und Wagen. (...) Nur Gefolgsleute können gefangen genommen, auf den Turm oder nach Carcassonne (der Graf von...) gestellt, oder durch den Zaubergang eingesetzt werden."
Translation: "Followers are small and big followers, mayor and wagon. (...) Only followers can be captured, be deployed on the tower or to Carcassonne (Count), or be deployed through the magic portal."

The same reply implies that the wagon does not necessarily need roads to travel but can, for example, move directly from one city to another as long as they are touching.

Hester

I understand that you can put the wagon in an abbey as a monk, but can you drive him there with his special moving capability?  I don't think so, but want some clarification.  Since the abbey finishes off all of the features I would assume that access into the abbey through driving the wagon is denied.  Putting the wagon in as a new piece however should not be.  Is this correct?

Also there are six catapult tiles that have the potential to either allow pass through for roads and farms or stops the feature dead in their tracks because of the fair symbol on the tile.  What are the rule clarifications for the painted fair symbol on the tile and feature connections.

Is there already some date planned for these question to HIG?
and so, is there a dead-line for these questions?

A lot of questions have been gathered so far, and at least we have enough questions I Guess.

mdjvz

You are correct.

And for the catapult tiles question, I assumed that the fairs act like bundles of rocks, thus the wagon can move from a completed road to an incomplete road or what have you.

Did we ever get an official ruling concerning the possible roads in the fair/cloister tile from Catapult? Every time I play with Catapult (and I do play with it), I want to throw that tile across the room (I actually did once!). It is very confusing looking.

We haven't yet got a clarification from HiG regarding the Catapult.

I'd like to escalate the following debate to HiG (do rivers separate farms?):
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=565.0 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=565.0)

Well, I hope that this won't be seen as insolence, but I since I recently had the chance to play Carcassonne again with some friends (usually I have to play against the computer) and some of these problems came up during gameplay, I took the liberty of posting a few questions to HiG. They were answered by Georg Wild. I tried to translate as literally as possible. Strangely enough, I believe some of the answers contradict previous FAQ, but I haven't checked in detail yet.

Q: Is it allowed to place a wagon or mayor on a tower?
A: Yes, but it may be assumed that it is not worth "sacrificing" such a valuable piece.

Q: May the mayor be placed on a cloister?
A: Yes, and the cloister would then be occupied. However, cloisters have no pennants, so the mayor would have a strength of zero and the player would score no points.

Q: May the mayor be placed into a city that already contains a wagon?
A: No. Both are "followers" (according to the definition in the rules), so the city is already occupied by the wagon.

Q: May the mayor and wagon be placed into the city of Carcassonne (Count)?
A: Yes, both are followers.

Q: Can the mayor and wagon be removed from a city by a princess?
A: Yes (see above).

Q: What exactly constitutes a "connected feature" for movement of the wagon?
A: A DIRECTLY adjoining feature, e.g. a road which ends at a city is connected, if a farm (or other feature) is between them the features are not connected.

Q: May a wagon be placed on an abbey, and if yes, can the wagon drive onto a directly connected city or road after scoring (and the other way round, from city/road to abbey)?
A: Yes, if the target feature has not yet been completed.

Q: When I move a wagon to a new feature, can I choose which tile to set it on? For example, if I move it from a city to a road which so far consists of five tiles, do I have to place the wagon on the first tile (counting from the city) or can I place it e.g. on the third tile? For scoring it doesn't matter, but if a dragon happens to come by the exact placement might make a big difference.
A: Yes, you may.

Q: Can the wagon "drive by" a fair, or rather does a fair split a road at all?
A: The fair is not a "feature", it should be seen like the small houses at crossroads.

Q: Can the pig herd from River2 be used in conjunction with a barn, i.e. can you score up to 5 points per city (during the game for barn with pig and pig herd, at game end for barn and pig herd)?
A: Yes.

Q: May the barn be placed on a tile with a volcano?
A: Yes.

Q: May the pig be placed on a farm that was just connected to a farm with a barn, i.e. on the newly placed tile (immediately before scoring)?
A: Yes, the pig may be placed in already occupied features.

Q: Catapult: Do the yellow areas split the (green) farm in two (tile with cloister and tile with two opposing city segments)?
A: If the (green) farm is disconnected, the fair does split it.

thanks for posting these hester

Which answers do you think contradict what they previously said, hester?  I don't think I see any contradiction.

If you want to nitpick - here you are :)

Exactly, he doesn't say (anymore) that the wagon needs roads to move and he also explicitly said that the wagon may move from abbey to city and vice versa.

Additionally, in the CAR, footnote 98 states,

whereas he now says that the pig herd may be used in connection with the barn to score 5 points at game end.

Somewhere in the forum at carcassonne.de it was said that HiG are working on a new set of rules to integrate the newest expansions. Maybe that'll yield some new insights.

hester, you win for the day!

I think regarding abbeys and wagons there is no conflict. The abbey is a separate feature from the road, just like the city is separate from the road, but the wagon can travel between them.

The pig-herd with barn is definitely a contradiction though...

That's my biggest question at present.  Does the pig farm count with the barn?

* bump *

Okay everyone, this is where you post your questions for Matt regarding the Carcassonne Complete Annotated Rules (CAR). I've tried to search through old threads and pull out some of the FAQs from there, but there are still many more questions we want answered by Hans im Glück!

---

Old FAQ Threads:
FAQ for the Wheel of Fate (http://carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=395.0)

Note: This thread has been moved from Another round of Questions to HiG... (http://carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=395.0) to become the primary FAQ thread.

Questions I have thus far:

• Can mayors be used as regular followers on other features or can they only be used in cities?
• Can any type of follower be placed using a Crop Circle, or only a basic follower?
• Can any type of figure be removed using a Crop Circle, or only a basic follower?
• Can the Party tiles be used to remove a builder, pig, or barn?

Edit: Fixed "farm" to "barn".

Can 2 tile cities under siege (under attack from Cathars) be turned into Castles, and if so how does it affect the scoring of the castle and the castle in relation to the field?

The post by Hester on March 23, 2009, in this thread, may answer the questions regarding the Mayor. Here is an excerpt:

"Q: Is it allowed to place a wagon or mayor on a tower?
A: Yes, but it may be assumed that it is not worth "sacrificing" such a valuable piece.

Q: May the mayor be placed on a cloister?
A: Yes, and the cloister would then be occupied. However, cloisters have no pennants, so the mayor would have a strength of zero and the player would score no points.

Q: May the mayor be placed into a city that already contains a wagon?
A: No. Both are "followers" (according to the definition in the rules), so the city is already occupied by the wagon.

Q: May the mayor and wagon be placed into the city of Carcassonne (Count)?
A: Yes, both are followers.

Q: Can the mayor and wagon be removed from a city by a princess?
A: Yes (see above)."

That's an intriguing thought.  I hadn't considered that before.  I would assume that like the city, the points for the castle would be double for farms, but I'm not sure what it would do or the castle scoring.  An excellent question for the FAQs.

These, along with the rest of hester's list, are probably worth adding straight to the CAR.

More questions:
• Does a Pig Farm (River II) add an extra point to a Castle (BC&B) or does only a pig and barn?
• Does a follower on a Castle remain a Knight?
• Does a follower on a Castle stay on the tile he was deployed or sit between tiles?
• Is a follower on a Castle immune to dragons, towers, or the plague? (If it does not remain on one of the two tiles.)
• Can a follower in the City of Carcassonne (Count) be deployed to a Castle?
• Can a wagon (A&M) move from a Castle to another feature via a road connected to the original city when a Castle is completed?

Some of these have been answered in the Big Box thread ;) I'll have to check through, but the follower in the castle is definitely a knight, and cannot be eaten by the dragon. You can deploy wagons and mayors to it as well.

Going through hester's FAQ; references refer to footnotes in v5.0b10.

A good start! This one directly contradicts a previous FAQ (#159). Not included, though maybe we should ask again, informing HiG about the contradictory answers.

Added.

Already included (#157)

Already included (#156)

Not included as seemingly controversial; need clarification?

Added.

Added, though changed "fair" to "fête" (assuming that's what is meant here).

Not included; contradicts #119. Need clarification?

Added.

I don't understand this one enough to include it. Doesn't it contradict the other question about fêtes above?

Not to my understanding. The previous question asked whether a fair separating two roads ( =F= ) did, in fact, separate the two roads (it does, of course). The last question refers specifically to the tile with the cloister, fair, and some brown 'ground' area that extends to the ends of the tile.

(Personally, I think you should be able to attach field or road to that tile, but I've never seen anyone else with that opinion.)

Okay. Seems I actually misunderstood the other one  ::)

Okay, here goes. I have made a list of questions, based on those suggested above, seemingly contradictory answers, and anything else I could think of based on what I've added to the CAR recently. Here's the list:


I'd like to send these off over the next couple of days, so if you have any other suggestions or corrections, please let me know.

This is a great list of questions.

Are numbers 3 and 24 redundant?

You're right. I'll delete #24.

Thanks  :)

How long does a reply usually take?

Anything from a couple of hours to a couple of weeks.

Thought of a couple more:

You use "follower" in your first question but "figure" in the second for the same meaning.  :)

Corrected. Thanks  :)

I'd better add this here as I've brought it up in another thread and on BGG:

Abbey and Mayor
Some rules lawyers interpret the word 'immediately' in the rules to mean that the turn ends (and is scored) as soon as someone connects a farm containing farmers to a farm containing a barn - therefore a player would not be permitted to any 'move the wood' action - while others maintain that a 'move the wood' action can indeed occur after the placement and this 'forced' immediate scoring - meaning that the 'forced'  scoring is completely separate to end of turn scoring.

HiG allows placement of a pig to a farm containing farmers to the tile that adjoins a farm with a barn before the immediate 'forced' scoring takes place, and it is clear that a player may not play a farmer into a field that contains a barn. However, what is not clear is if a player could deploy a follower to a road on this adjoining (or any other unrelated feature to the barn farm) before this immediate 'forced' scoring takes place.

An example here is Green has a farmer in a field, Red has a barn in another field. I'm playing Blue. I decide to use a tile that has a cloister on it in a perfect 'hole' on the layout for it to go. Unfortunately, this will connect Green's farmer farm to Red's barn farm. I place the tile. Now, what happens? May I deploy a monk to the cloister or does this immediate 'forced' scoring take place. Am I allowed to place a monk after any immediate 'forced' scoring, or has my turn come to an abrupt end and I cannot do any more on this turn?

We always play u can do this...not sure tho.

Just played my first game with Bridges, Castles and Bazaars today, a few questions arose:

• If a farm near a castle gets scored before the end of the game (because of a barn), does the castle get those points? Farms are only mentioned in the rules where it is talking about the end of the game.
• Can you place a second bridge in a tile orthogonally to the one already there? Let's say you have a ffff tile with a vertical bridge, can you place a road beside it and place a second bridge there? It sounds silly, but taking the rules to the letter I'd say it's allowed.
• If the auctioneer opens an auction with a nonzero bid and no one else bids he gets the tiles and subtracts his bid from his points? That seems to be the only way someone can lose points in an auction without those points going to someone else.
• If you have a cloister or shrine involved in a challenge adjacent to a castle and it loses the challenge, does that cause the castle to be scored as well, getting 0 points? If not, will the castle get 9 points when the spaces around the cloister/shrine are filled?

Hello everyone. I have a doubt about the abbey that I haven't seen address in the CAR notes nor in the forums (tough I may have overlooked it).

In the set of instructions in spanish, in the picture of example, it says that the player who plays the abbey closes one road with his meeple, but let the two cities and other road around the tile opened. It doesn't clarify any more than this.

My doubt is if the player can choose to close one, two, three or all four sides around the tile, or he always has to close just one side or all of them.

Our current house rule is that you can only close one side of it, so this tile is usually reserved for avoiding other player's big cities to be closed (or saving yours, but it's quite complicated unless most players have already used theirs).

Thanks!

There is not a matter of choosing. The abbey tile automatically terminates all features on all four sides. My english copy of the rules uses the word "completes" but that is a poor choice in this case. The features are only completed if they are not open on any other end or edge. If a road is still open on its other end then it is not completed although one end of it will be terminated where it meets the abbey. If the features are completed as a result of this (meaning they cannot otherwise be extended further) then they are scored. The features remain incomplete if they still have an open end or edge. The player placing the abbey has a choice of where to place the tile but has no choice of which of the features it completes.

Hope this helps.
Happy Carcking!

Thank you :)

1- As you say, it isn't mentioned that case, but I'd assume you score 4 points as well (5 with pig), unless there is already a barn, then 2 points per castle (3 with pig).
2- I wouldn't think so, altough the case isn't seem addressed on the rules, you would have to place the bridge in two tiles, and I don't think that's allowed.
3- Yes.
4- Yes, the castle will be closed when the next structure within its range closes, whether it makes points or not.

Thanks for the answers, PreGy.

That's not what I meant. I want to know if scoring that farm will trigger the scoring of the castle, as something adjacent to it has been scored.

You wouldn't have to place the bridge in two tiles, you'd have to place two bridges in one tile.
To make the situation clear I've attached two pictures. If the board is as in the first picture, are you allowed to play the move in picture 2? It certainly seems silly, but the rulebook doesn't forbid it.

As unlikely as this may seems, it's reasonable that it could be done since the rules allow bridgeplacement on the tile you just played or one adjacent to it.  The question would be whether HiG would decide to rule on placing a bridge on a tile that already had one.  Good one for the FAQ's.

I want to raise a voice in the auctioner problem.

When auction is perform it goes like that

p1 - player 1
p2 - player 2

p1 - open auction with nonzero bid.
p2 - get the tile.
p1 subtract nonzero points, p2 add nonzero points

and when p2 = p1, nobody add points? That seems to be quite odd. If the points are subtarcted then, in my feeling, thouse points have to go somewere, and when p2 = p1, then the points are subtracted form p1, and goes to p2, when p2 = p1, then they go to p1...

One of the most convenient things about Matt being our contact with HiG is his fluent German.  Is there anyone else on the site that is fluent in both English and German?

Here's my take on this. Castles do not share in barn-scoring. According to the rules the castle is scored when a feature in its vicinity is completed. Barn-scoring is not the result of a feature being completed so the castle does not share in that scoring.

Here's my take on this one. The losing feature is not complete so the castle does not share in that scoring. When that feature is completed the castle would score the 9 points for the feature (given that this is the first feature completed in the vicinity). The main question is does the play complete the castle - if not the castle is not scored.

I agree with Carcking on both points. Neither of those feature are being completed when they are being scored.

Joff, I think this would be an extreme interpretation of the word "immediate". I can't believe it would be the spirit of the Barn rule to (literally in a passing statement) cause a player to forego the wood phase of his turn as that would be in major conflict with the original rules of the game where it clearly gives the player the opportunity to deply a follower. I think the appropriate interpretation would be to consider that "immediate" can define the relative occurance of an event. In the case of Barn-scoring I would say they are drawing attention to the fact that you don't wait until the end of the game to barn-score. I suppose you're correct that there are rules lawyers out there even if self proclaimed - but boy, this one would be a stretch. :)

Actually scoring something immediately means, "Calculate the score and award the points appropriately".  No where does it say it ends the turn. No where does it even imply the end of the turn.  It simply implies "interrupt normal play and complete this task".  Any rules lawyer that thinks otherwise is simply looking for an advantage that should not exist.

As a self-proclaimed rules lawyer, I'd like to point out the wealth of evidence which proves that immediately does not signal the end of the turn. (e.g. the dragon moves immediately)

Haha - nice one Scott!  :D