The Ocean

[Novelty]

but I just wanted to mention there is no "deploy a follower" in the Ocean, at least in the traditional sense.

It doesn't matter whether there is a deploy a follower or not in the expansion.  The rules have 3 steps:

1. Draw a tile
2. Play a follower
3. Score

You do have actions that are carried out instead of playing a follower.  Those needs to be made very clear what they are.  Also, as you pointed out, there is one action that deploys the follower to the harbour.  So if that is the first action, then you start describing from there so that the document "flow" is sequential and logical (you only talk about sailing or islands, for example, after talking about deploying to harbours.

[CKorfmann]

I'm not sure if it's addressed in this thread or if you read the one where it is, but what do you think about using the ships from Catan as the followers for these tiles?  Also, how about The Pirate (i.e. The King and Robber Baron).

Also, there will be future expansions that put an ocean twist on current expansions such as King & Baron.  I will need some art for the pirate leader and the governor.

I thought of some other ideas.  I know you've got so much of this figured out and I don't want to throw a monkey wrench into the works, but I thought I'd put it out there for you to consider.  What if instead of a Pirate (King/Baron) tile, it was something like an Admiral or "Sea Captain". 

As for using ships and telling them apart, what if you did away with the Pirate as a follower and made it one neutral meeple that worked like the Dragon or the Big Bad Wolf from the Fairy Tales?  Perhaps it could even work something like the Leper and merely take points away instead of removing the followers.  Or, you could even have it work similar to a tower and have it capture other followers.  Not to sound too much like Catan, but you could make it a black ship meeple (maybe even with a nifty little Union Jack on it).  There are a couple of different larger ship tokens out there I've seen that you could use to differentiate the pirate ship from the black set of followers. 

I've been communicating with Mr. Storbeck from that German fan site about his lake set and we also discussed the issue of how many ships to have.  I think we agreed that if you play with the regular tiles as well, you'd probably need to add followers or you would have too few to play on the land tiles.  My suggestion was that you have 1 ship follwer for every 12-15 tiles of Lake (Ocean). 

Perhaps I misunderstand, the Ocean is meant to be an expansion, not a spin-off, right?

[skipboris]

I'm not sure if it's addressed in this thread or if you read the one where it is, but what do you think about using the ships from Catan as the followers for these tiles?  Also, how about The Pirate (i.e. The King and Robber Baron).

Also, there will be future expansions that put an ocean twist on current expansions such as King & Baron.  I will need some art for the pirate leader and the governor.

I thought of some other ideas.  I know you've got so much of this figured out and I don't want to throw a monkey wrench into the works, but I thought I'd put it out there for you to consider.  What if instead of a Pirate (King/Baron) tile, it was something like an Admiral or "Sea Captain".  "Master and Commander" is what I was thinking, actually.

As for using ships and telling them apart, what if you did away with the Pirate as a follower and made it one neutral meeple that worked like the Dragon or the Big Bad Wolf from the Fairy Tales?  Perhaps it could even work something like the Leper and merely take points away instead of removing the followers.  Or, you could even have it work similar to a tower and have it capture other followers.  Not to sound too much like Catan, but you could make it a black ship meeple (maybe even with a nifty little Union Jack on it).  There are a couple of different larger ship tokens out there I've seen that you could use to differentiate the pirate ship from the black set of followers.  Yes, actually I think I am going to include ship follower rules, including large boats.  Where do you get the larger ones in multiple colors?  Anyone dedicated enough to make this will probably have no problem picking up a few ship meeples from board game bits.  As for the pirates go, I already have a dragon style expansion in mind tentatively called "Nessie and Mermaid."

I've been communicating with Mr. Storbeck from that German fan site about his lake set and we also discussed the issue of how many ships to have.  I think we agreed that if you play with the regular tiles as well, you'd probably need to add followers or you would have too few to play on the land tiles.  My suggestion was that you have 1 ship follwer for every 12-15 tiles of Lake (Ocean).  Right now I'm thinking 6 ships each.  Since ships only claim fishing zones and reefs, not islands, you need less.  Fleet management needs to be an element of the strategy too.

Perhaps I misunderstand, the Ocean is meant to be an expansion, not a spin-off, right?  It was primarily written as an expansion, but I threw in spin off rules in case you just want to pla the ocean.

Comments in red.

Also, here is a list of expansions that I will make after the base rules are finalized:
-Nessie and Mermaid (Maybe Krakken and mermaid)
-Chateau D'If (my favorite)
-Turbulent waters (with warp pools, stranded islands, Hurricanes (tiles played like abbeys, different effects), and vagabond sailors)
-Treasure Hunt Ocean (with permission)
-"Master and Commander" & "Pirate Lord" (King scout for Ocean)
- Ocean & Island trade
- and more.

[CKorfmann]

"Master and Commander" is what I was thinking, actually.

Nice.  The shot where he's holding a rigging line and leaning over the side.

Yes, actually I think I am going to include ship follower rules, including large boats.  Where do you get the larger ones in multiple colors?

I'll have to try and remember where I've seen that.  It might take me a few days to get an opportunity.  My web activity is limited where I am (I'm very pleasently surprised I can access this site). 

Right now I'm thinking 6 ships each.  Since ships only claim fishing zones and reefs, not islands, you need less.  Fleet management needs to be an element of the strategy too.

Agreed, sounds great to me.  I'm excited that you like the ship idea. 

Also, here is a list of expansions that I will make after the base rules are finalized:
-Nessie and Mermaid (Maybe Krakken and mermaid)

Sweet!  I like Krakken better, maybe even Leviathan (sp?).

-Chateau D'If (my favorite)

Sounds great!  No idea what it would look like, but I love the concept! 

-Treasure Hunt Ocean (with permission)

Of course!  A must...

[CKorfmann]

Sorry it took so long, but here's what I've found for ships...

You can get the regular ships from Catan from THIS site, although, there are probably lots of places to get them.

There are several different ships/boats HERE, but they are not standard Carcassonne colors.

This is the best I can do for now.  I hope it's somewhat helpful.

[skipboris]

Sorry it took so long, but here's what I've found for ships...

You can get the regular ships from Catan from THIS site, although, there are probably lots of places to get them.

There are several different ships/boats HERE, but they are not standard Carcassonne colors.

This is the best I can do for now.  I hope it's somewhat helpful.

Cool thanks.  My computer is down so my work on this is on pause at the moment.

[CKorfmann]

How's your computer doing?  Have you gotten a chance to do any more work on the Ocean?

[skipboris]

How's your computer doing?  Have you gotten a chance to do any more work on the Ocean?

I just got my new one.  Hopefully I'll get a chance to work on this within the week.  Thanks for the interest!

[Whaleyland]

Just a comment on the name of this expansion (which I fully support, by the way)...since Carcassonne isn't actually adjacent to an "Ocean", shouldn't this expansion be called "The Sea", as in the Mediterranean Sea? It doesn't have to be, but one of the main concerns of the expansions is to be roughly historically accurate and since Carcassonne is not near an ocean, this expansion is somewhat inaccurate. Just a concern. Cheers.

[CKorfmann]

You make a good point.

[skipboris]

Just a comment on the name of this expansion (which I fully support, by the way)...since Carcassonne isn't actually adjacent to an "Ocean", shouldn't this expansion be called "The Sea", as in the Mediterranean Sea? It doesn't have to be, but one of the main concerns of the expansions is to be roughly historically accurate and since Carcassonne is not near an ocean, this expansion is somewhat inaccurate. Just a concern. Cheers.

Hmm I see your point.  As a counter point, I would say that while part of France borders the Mediterranean sea, it also borders the Atlantic ocean (though Carcassonne IS closer to the Mediterranean).  As for historical accuracy, we do have fairies and dragons in an official expansion.  I plan to further explore mythology in the expansions. 

I might change it in the future, but it would mean new artwork for the cover art and it also might be confusing to people that know this as "the Ocean".  I guess I'll have to think on this a bit more. 

By the way, my next set of rules will be adding some big changes, including boat meeples, combat changes, and a wind element.  I'm going to re-visit the tiles as well...

[CKorfmann]

As for historical accuracy, we do have fairies and dragons in an official expansion.  I plan to further explore mythology in the expansions.

Also a good point.  It is just a name. 

[Whaleyland]

True, although I would argue that the mythological elements don't count since they still, sort of, encompass the feeling of medieval-ness. But it is true that an ocean does touch France and since technically the Mediterranean Sea is a branch of the Atlantic Ocean, I guess you can call it an ocean. 

Somewhat related to your point, I think an expansion that works with the Reconquista (which is why Carcassonne was founded as a county to begin with) would be quite historically fun. But trying to work that out plus the rather anti-Muslim tone of it may not make it so politically correct.

[skipboris]

Drumroll please!

Version 0.7 is here!  There are TONS of changes to everything here.  Tile changes, rule changes, new art, etc.  Sorry about the large file, but I want to make sure I preserve this in a loss-less format.  I'm really hoping this is close to a release version.  So please, give me feedback and council here.  I'm more excited than anyone to put 1.0 up there!

I reduced the number of tiles needed so that people will be able to make this easier.  The old tiles will be added back in later with expansion features.  For now I just want it to feel fresh and simple.  Though its still over 100 tiles...  Hopefully I have included past comments in my revisions but let me know if I missed something.

So, without any further adu, Here it is:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ni1nggggq5j

[Novelty]

There are some formatting issues (different font and font sizes, footnotes not justified, etc.), typos, and the usual American vs British English, but I guess that can be fixed up immediately prior to the release version.

Page 1: "Place a tile - move wood - score" would be more accurately defined as "Place a tile - Deploy follower - score".  Note that RGG does not use the term "move wood".
Page 2: Question: Can a non-Ocean tile be used to extend an island?  If not this needs to be stated in footnote 6.  If so, then the statement that you cannot play non-Ocean tiles to the Ocean side is erroneous.
Page 3: Does the free move with wind count as your 1 free move per turn or is it in addition?

Also, the document structure is still a little "out of whack".  I feel that Ocean Deployment section should be before The Ocean & fishermen, so that the document "flows" better.  It would be better structured as:
Ocean Deployment
Harbours
Fleets
Sailing
Winds
Reefs
Ocean Sailing example
Ocean Challenge
The Ocean & fishermen
Island
Govenors
Govenor Mansions
Final Scoring

Anyways, keep up the good work.