In the Stocks

[Joff]

As for the Stocks, I like the idea of a temporary hindrance, like removing a player from the majority count for a bit, to let others scramble while their opponent is in the slammer. But one day he'll get out...

You will need some mechanic to keep track of which turns the players have lost, to avoid arguments.

This is what i'm now leaning towards with 'Stocks', temporary hinderance by removing from the majority or losing the power of 1 for a couple of turns. But how to count? I'm not sure...

[Cappy]

Somthing to chew on:

Stocks: Red player places a stocks tile. He moves Yellow's knight onto the tile. Followers on the stocks tile in no way count towards scoring the city.

At the end of Yellow's next turn, that meeple is laid down (like a farmer) -- the poor guy is exhausted by his ordeal. This is a free action that happens during the "reclaim the wood" phase.

On any following turn, Yellow may -- instead of placing a follower -- move the meeple out of the stocks to any other tile in the city. So getting a meeple out of the stocks counts as Yellow's "move the wood" action.

When the city is scored, any meeple in the stocks is returned to its player at that time.

This puts the responsibility of turn counting on the imprisoned player. It lends some tension to the situation, since no one but the controlling player knows when the punished meeple will be freed. There is also some cost to getting out (gotta pay your dues to society).

Questions: can the Mayor or Builder be thrown in the stocks? Can meeples in the stocks escape a beseiged city via cloisters? Or sneak out using other variants that allow meeple movement?

As for the tile graphics: should the stocks really be on a green area? Wouldn't a muddied zone be more appropriate to the stocks? I suppose you were trying to highlight the stocks' appearance on the tile, but the icon surely does this. I don't know, seeing that happy bit of green in the middle of the city throws me off, especially when it has nothing to do with farms (in game terms).

Edit: I meant to highlight that only a recumbant meeple can be pulled from the stocks. This means he must have done at least one full turn in the stocks.

[Joff]

Stocks: Red player places a stocks tile. He moves Yellow's knight onto the tile. Followers on the stocks tile in no way count towards scoring the city.

At the end of Yellow's next turn, that meeple is laid down (like a farmer) -- the poor guy is exhausted by his ordeal. This is a free action that happens during the "reclaim the wood" phase.

On any following turn, Yellow may -- instead of placing a follower -- move the meeple out of the stocks to any other tile in the city. So getting a meeple out of the stocks counts as Yellow's "move the wood" action.

When the city is scored, any meeple in the stocks is returned to its player at that time.

This puts the responsibility of turn counting on the imprisoned player. It lends some tension to the situation, since no one but the controlling player knows when the punished meeple will be freed. There is also some cost to getting out (gotta pay your dues to society).

I like this a lot. Lots of food for thought in this. I particularly like the way that moving the wood accounts for bringing the follower from the stocks. Also, when the Red player places the stocks tile, does moving Yellow's wood count for Red's moving the wood phase?

Questions: can the Mayor or Builder be thrown in the stocks? Can meeples in the stocks escape a beseiged city via cloisters? Or sneak out using other variants that allow meeple movement?

Can the Mayor or Bulder be put in the stocks... hmmm. Why not?... then again, perhaps not the builder as he does not count when calculating the majority... but then again, placing him in the stocks would hinder the player 
Can they escape/meeple movement? Absolutely not... but a Tower can capture and a Dragon can eat!

As for the tile graphics: should the stocks really be on a green area? Wouldn't a muddied zone be more appropriate to the stocks? I suppose you were trying to highlight the stocks' appearance on the tile, but the icon surely does this. I don't know, seeing that happy bit of green in the middle of the city throws me off, especially when it has nothing to do with farms (in game terms).

I agree. I was thinking of a Market Place area, surrounded by houses. The first tile was a very rough draft. If we allow the movement of a player to the stocks there would need to be an area (similar to my Jousting Tournament tile) in which you can place the captured meeple.

[Cappy]

Also, when the Red player places the stocks tile, does moving Yellow's wood count for Red's moving the wood phase?

This is where you can define the level of hinderance/agression in your variant. Red puts Yellow's follower in the stocks standing up. On Yellow's next turn, he must lay the meeple down, which I called a free action. But now I'm rethinking that. Laying a meeple down, a required action, could be either that turn's "move the wood" action or constitute the whole turn.

And the fun continues:

It's a shame to have the threat of the stocks diminish after the tile is played. So as the game progresses, if a player connects two city segments, any of which has a stocks tile in it, he may imprison meeples as before. Probably only if the stocks are empty at the time. Yes, a given meeple could be punished twice (pesky repeat offenders ). Heck, if you end up with multiple stocks tiles in one city, think of the witch hunts you could have...

[Joff]

Here are the draft rules for now:

In the Stocks - draft version 0.1

And the updated tile (again, a draft version):



Is this a better design? Which one is better?

[Scott]

The "area" in the middle isn't to scale with the rest of the tile. Looks like some sort of arena or... race track?

I'm not an expert on medieval times, but from what I understand, stuff like stocks and gallows were put in the town square to maximize public exposure. The person in the stocks or on the gallows was an example to the townsfolk of what happens to people who don't follow the rules. From this standpoint, I prefer the original rough design.

[Novelty]

I agree with everything Scott said.  I prefer the original as well, sans the green bits.

[Joff]

And yet another batch (draft tiles):

1                                                       2



3                                                       4

Is this more like it? Which is better?

Perhaps the 'Stocks' icon should replace the stocks in the center of the market area?

[Novelty]

I like these new tiles... but am a bit bummed out that the border is not there.  I would say leave the stocks icon and the stocks themselves in the image as they are - I think they look nice.

[henrysunset]

I would remove the icon in the corner, use option #1, but make the stocks a bit bigger.

You could also add a crowd of articipants and draw a person being escorted up to the gallows.

[wellidesigns]

I'd make the market area a bit smaller and the stocks in the center a bit bigger
also adding some people to the market area is a very good idea !

[Novelty]

Joff, how about using the scans from the City of Carcassonne (from the Count) as your base image instead of whatever you seem to be using?  The scans from G,K&K are quite nice to work with (thanks Matt ).  Here's the BGG link to the CoC at BGG: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/293547

[Joff]

Thanks Novelty...

I have done... much happier with this effort:



The houses nearer the front may need to be different...

Am I getting close yet?

[Novelty]

I agree, the houses near the front may need to be different... and that green tinge really makes it look icky...

Also, I'm not sure the tile is being improved.  The person in the stocks makes it too creepy for me and the mismatch with the thickness of the lines is distracting.

Personally, my favourite version so far is the original one on the first page of this thread with the icon... all that needs to be done there is to change the ground from a greenish tinge to a dark brown IMO.

[Joff]

Well, I doubt I can please everyone then! One wants someone in the stocks with people watching, others don't, some want the icon, others don't!!!! To border or not to border!!!! GRRRRRR! Frustrating or what?