Wine Merchant

[loganmann1]

This is my first attempt and this is very rough but it’s an idea I’ve been playing with and wondered what thoughts others might have concerning it.

This idea was based on the idea of a vineyard but I see there is a vineyard expansion already in development.  I’m open to suggestions on a new theme but for the sake of this description I’ll call it a vineyard.

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With the ever increasing growth in the lands around Carcassonne grows the ever increasing need for religion and refreshment.  Monks requiring sacramental wine and nobility requiring all the wine they can get proves a lucrative market for the local vineyard owners.

The expansion would include 6 to 12 tiles with a vineyard next to a road or as a junction.  The vineyard would be a simple icon much like an Inn on the Lake.  It isn’t claimed by itself but will grant extra points upon completion of the road.  

If a road which has one or more vineyards lining it is completed, then the thief scores an additional 2 points for every pennant in a city connected to the road and 3 points for every cloister connected to the road.  However, if such a road has not been completed at the end of the game, no additional points are awarded during the final scoring.

If playing with the fan made expansion Family Feud and a road with a vineyard connects to multiple cities of opposing family ties the scoring player picks which family to do business with and scores only for that families respective pennants.

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I originally thought of this as affecting farms but felt that added the potential for way to many bonus points for the already powerful farmer. So I put it on the road instead. But on a farm it might make some small farm options more worthwhile for those players who never got into a big farm by the end of the game.

I’ve also considered a claimable feature that scores points every time a cloister or a city with pennants is completed anywhere on the board until such time that the vineyard is totally surrounded (or some other ending method).  This idea would include fewer tiles I’d think but could be much more valuable. But that might be to much like gold mines.

Any thoughts? Is this idea worth working with?

[Gwommy]

Sounds good to me.  I'd agree that making the road a little more powerful would be helpful.  Although, the vineyard doesn't really connect to the road very well.  Perhaps something like a supply cart next to the road would be more suitable?

[meepleater]

I think it sounds good. Maybe some sort of storehouse or stable (although there is an expansion that has stable owners already) might be another idea?

[gunpowdertea]

I like it. It could also be interesting to vary the value of the wine depending on the month:

http://santamariavisitor.com/cm/wine_country/wine_education/wine_seasons.html

...it could be tied in to the Seasons expansion, with a monthly sub-seasonal board for the main tracker board (1 season to 3 months) and have the price of wine peaking and dipping depending on the time of year. Perhaps the longer the road, the older the vineyard, which sells for a better vintage. Could even do little wine bottle tokens in a series of tiers.

quick and dirty e.g:

[loganmann1]

I think some sort of trade cart or maybe a building that is the wine cellar would work just fine.  It could just be "Wine Merchant" instead of vineyard.

I do like the idea of the wine "aging" and increasing value. Thats a great chart there gunpowdertea.  Maybe use the vintage idea where vintage 1 is say a 1-3 tile road, vintage 2 is a 4-6 tile road, and vintage 3 is a 6+ road.  Points for pennants and cloisters would be equal to the vintage.  Or maybe pennants are the vintage and cloisters are the vintage +1. It adds more strategy to the expansion in not only trying to connect to specific features but also trying to do it in as long a road as possible.

Any thoughts? Basic points awarded or an aging system?

Perhaps there could be simplified and more advance rules as some other expansions have. Simple being the basic points originally described and advance using the vintage idea.  Actually the vintage idea doesn't seem so hard really as it is.  Maybe that would be simple and gunpowdertea's idea of seasons is advanced...or at least specific to using that expansion.

[Gwommy]

Maybe use the vintage idea where vintage 1 is say a 1-3 tile road, vintage 2 is a 4-6 tile road, and vintage 3 is a 6+ road.  Points for pennants and cloisters would be equal to the vintage.  Or maybe pennants are the vintage and cloisters are the vintage +1.

It may be a little more complex, but I definitely like one of these ideas.

[gunpowdertea]

I like the idea of a wine merchant. It could be interesting to have 1 big vineyard tile (maybe a 2x2 tile) activated by drawing a smaller version of it from the bag/tower à la The Lake, with say 6 roads (room for 8 though if it's a 2x2) going out that each player may deploy from as a merchant (would require an extra wagonesque meeple). And I like how the 'vintage' could be determined by pennants and cloisters so the player would get points based on where he was supplying to.

So what about if a player supplying for example a city received 1 'excellent vintage' token for every pennant in that city as it's completed (or after, if joined on) then can exit the city from another road like the regular wagon can to move to another to sell. There's more tiles with roads going into cities than roads going into cloisters, so maybe the cloisters should be a better vintage; 'transcendent' or 'peerless' or something. Then the bottom vintage for completed roads that lead nowhere from the vineyard. At the end of the game the player with the most tokens in any vintage gets a quality related bonus?

But then it'd be a kind of a travelling salesman take on Traders from T&B, so you might not like that idea.

[loganmann1]

I like the idea of a wine merchant. It could be interesting to have 1 big vineyard tile (maybe a 2x2 tile) activated by drawing a smaller version of it from the bag/tower à la The Lake, with say 6 roads (room for 8 though if it's a 2x2) going out that each player may deploy from as a merchant (would require an extra wagonesque meeple). And I like how the 'vintage' could be determined by pennants and cloisters so the player would get points based on where he was supplying to.

So what about if a player supplying for example a city received 1 'excellent vintage' token for every pennant in that city as it's completed (or after, if joined on) then can exit the city from another road like the regular wagon can to move to another to sell. There's more tiles with roads going into cities than roads going into cloisters, so maybe the cloisters should be a better vintage; 'transcendent' or 'peerless' or something. Then the bottom vintage for completed roads that lead nowhere from the vineyard. At the end of the game the player with the most tokens in any vintage gets a quality related bonus? 

This sounds like a fun idea, its different enough it could be a seperate expansion possibility in and of itself.  This idea is much more like The Lake but instead of racing to one spot you are racing to "sell" your goods as widespread as possible.  It does raise a few questions in my mind right away.

- How do you keep track of where each trader has been so they don't sell to the same place over and over?
- Can differnent players traders sell to the same cities at differnt times or is everything a one time "sale"?

This could result in a lot of tokens or markers spread all over the board.

I've been trying to keep this expansion to a simple means of making roads more stragtegic and valuable.  I think I'll take the direction of the vintages based on road length if you don't mind me using that idea.  As soon as I get some graphics put together I'll put up a first draft rule set.

Gunpowdertea, you could take this new meeple trader idea though and start a new expansion.  I think they are plenty different enough.

[gunpowdertea]

- How do you keep track of where each trader has been so they don't sell to the same place over and over?
- Can differnent players traders sell to the same cities at differnt times or is everything a one time "sale"?

This could result in a lot of tokens or markers spread all over the board.

I guess the best way to do it without copious amounts of tokens would to be have a mini-game-inside-the-game where players can battle it out for exclusivity rights to any feature (real life drinking contest ftw!? ^^)

I've been trying to keep this expansion to a simple means of making roads more stragtegic and valuable.  I think I'll take the direction of the vintages based on road length if you don't mind me using that idea.  As soon as I get some graphics put together I'll put up a first draft rule set.

Gunpowdertea, you could take this new meeple trader idea though and start a new expansion.  I think they are plenty different enough.

Sounds grand. By all means use that idea, I look forward to seeing a first draft of the rules when you've got it figured

I might pursue the meeple trader thing when I've finished pilgrimage, after I've simplified the rules from being the tautological overexplained confusion-fest they are now.

[Gwommy]

Hey Loganmann, can you edit the subject title of the first post to reflect the name of this expansion?

[loganmann1]

Hey Loganmann, can you edit the subject title of the first post to reflect the name of this expansion?

Done

[loganmann1]

My thought with this is that the merchants will all be on road segments that don't have ends on the same tile.  There may well be other features on the tiles (cloisters, other roads, cities...) but none that already connect the merchant road to a cloister or city.  This would be so all the merchants have equal potential of getting points at both ends or no points at either.

This wouldn't make it a very wagon friendly tile set.

Am I being too equalizing.  Or would the chance of drawing a tile with a merchant on a road already connected to a cloister or city (though I suppose without a pennant this isn't any kind of guarentee) be good in the mix.  Chance of the draw that you already have some points secured.

Personally I lean towards the roads without ends option, but as this is my first expansion I'd be interested to hear others thoughts on what makes a good mix...equal potential or mixed chances.

[Gwommy]

I'd go with both ends of the road open. It can usually be placed on a road that has one end completed already anyway.

[loganmann1]

I plan to add picture examples of scoring, I just haven't had a chance to finish them yet.  But here is the first draft as the rules stand now.

http://www.mediafire.com/?kgtn2yjzmwn

EDIT: Draft 0.2

[Gwommy]

It looks good to me.  I couldn't find any typing or grammar errors.  The part about having more than one wine cellar on the road was slightly confusing, but I suppose it does make sense, I just had to read it slowly.  So if I had to make a change, I'd edit that sentence:

Instead, if a road has more than one wine cellar, each additional tile with a wine cellar on that road counts as adding two to the length of the road when calculating Vintage.