Expansion idea - Pilgrimage

[gunpowdertea]

Yeah I agree too actually. The only reason I omited that rule was because I thought the opportunity to play the tokens would decrease, but I think that actually might be a good thing. And also yes, it makes no sense for a monk to become a heretic on a pilgrimage. Maybe thats another expansion altogether...'the treacherous defector' of something ^^

That sounds pretty good.  As long as it's not automatic.  You'll have to make sure you can clearly explain it though.

What do you mean by 'automatic'?

[CKorfmann]

What do you mean by 'automatic'?

I guess what I mean is that the bonus should something you have to plan for and work toward, not automatic or something that is so easy that everyone gets it at the end of the game.  That would render it mute.

[gunpowdertea]

ok so, so far:


Pilgrimage

Extra Pieces

• This expansion consists of 12 coloured tokens - 2 of each in the standard player colours


Preparation

• Distribute the tokens so each player has 2 of his own colour prior to starting the game


Gameplay

In order to use the tokens and leave on a pilgrimage, the player must meet two requirements at the time of drawing a shrine or a cloister tile:

1. The player must have no followers in his possession to deploy.
2. The player must own on the board an uncompleted feature of the same classification, that is, if the player draws a shrine, he must have an uncompleted shrine on the the board, and if he draws a cloister, he must have an uncompleted cloister on the board.


If these requirements are met then the player may lay the tile in accordance with the rules and deploy to this tile the follower from the uncompleted feature. The player then places one of their tokens on the tile the follower has just been removed from, and the other token is placed underneath the follower that has just been moved.


As the two features are now linked, no scoring takes place until both features containing the Pilgrimage tokens have been completed or at the end of the game.

Final Scoring

Upon both features being completed, or at the end of the game, the scoring is as follows:

• For the first feature with only the token on it, the player scores 1 pt per tile in it's territory, as standard.

• For the feature with both the follower and the token, they only score the surrounding tiles without city features, and score 2 pts for each of these. Any tile in this feature's territory with any city parts is not scored.


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Any thoughts? Also I'm wondering about if either of the two lost to a competing shrine or cloister. I'm thinking that since the tokens remain on the board for the duration of the game, the tile with just the token on should be immune to competition...(or not??) But maybe the one with the follower and the token can get beaten in a competition (no score for the player on the pilgrimage at this stage and the follower is returned to their stash) BUT the token remains and can be scored like the first with just 1pt for every tile (although that might be in the player's benefit e.g. if they were surrounded by city tiles they might score more for 1pt per tile than 2pt's for every non-city tile).

OR

If either of the features are beaten by a neighbouring cloister or shrine in competition; because they are linked the follower is returned to the player and he scores 0 for both.

Thoughts?

[Gwommy]

So much for a simple expansion, eh? So many possibilities. I think the above will probably work fine if you're only playing with cloisters. 

Throwing shrine into the mix really does seem to change things. My thoughts on this is that if you're playing with shrines, then you should be able to use the tokens even if you have followers remaining in your supply.  In case of a challenge, both of your cloisters or shrines must be completed before your opponent's cloister or shrine in order to score the points, otherwise you don't score as in the rules of losing a challenge.  It's a chance that you have to take if you want the extra points.

But how often do people play with the shrines?  I never use them unless I'm playing a Mega-Carcassonne game.

[gunpowdertea]

hehehe yeah I thought this would be nice and simple  ^^

so ok, if we simplify it thusly:

Pilgrimage

Extra Pieces

• This expansion consists of 12 coloured tokens - 2 of each in the standard player colours


Preparation

• Distribute the tokens so each player has 2 of his own colour prior to starting the game


Gameplay

In order to use the tokens and leave on a pilgrimage, the player must meet two requirements at the time of drawing a cloister tile:

1. The player must have no followers in his possession to deploy*.
2. The player must be in ownership of an uncompleted cloister**

* - unless playing with the shrines expansion, in which case the tokens may be used if the player has deployable followers or not.
** - if playing with shrines, the newly drawn tile's feature must be of the same classification as an owned and uncompleted feature; that is to say, if the player draws a shrine, he must have an uncompleted shrine on the the board, and if he draws a cloister, he must have an uncompleted cloister on the board.

If these requirements are met then the player may lay the cloister tile in accordance with the rules and deploy to this tile the follower from the uncompleted cloister. The player then places one of their tokens on the tile the follower has just been removed from, and the other token is placed underneath the follower that has just been moved.


As the two cloisters are now linked by the Pilgrimage tokens, no scoring takes place until both features have been completed or at the end of the game.

Final Scoring

Upon both cloisters being completed, or at the end of the game, the scoring is as follows:

• For the cloister with only the token on it, the player scores 1 pt per tile in it's territory.

• For the cloister with both the follower and the token, the player only scores the surrounding tiles without city features, receiving 2 pts for each of these. Any tile in the cloister's territory with any city parts depicted on it is not scored.

[If playing with the shrines expansion - in the case of a challenge, both of the player's cloisters or shrines must be completed before their opponent's cloister or shrine in order to score the points. If the player is beaten by their opponent, they receive no points for either feature. If both of the players in competition are using the tokens, then the first to complete both of their features wins the points. If a challenge has not been resolved by the end of the game, both players receive the points from their own tokened features, with 1pt per tile for the first feature, and 2pts per tile with no city for the second feature.]

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That work better?

[Gwommy]

LoL!  Looks good to me!

[loganmann1]

How will this interact with the Dragon, Catapult or the Tower?

I'd assume the meeple can be taken and the two cloisters lost as consequence of the link between them.  But does anything happen to the token alone...there isn't a meeple to eat, seduce or capture because he's pilgrimaging. I'm assuming not but just wanted to clarify.  Also if the meeple is seduced by the Catapult do you exchange both tokens for the new player's or do they take them over and still have their own tokens to use?
 
Which I guess all implies the question...are the cloisters permanently linked no matter what happens (like the tunnels) or is it based on the meeple figure pilgrimaging?

[Gwommy]

Also if the meeple is seduced by the Catapult do you exchange both tokens for the new player's or do they take them over and still have their own tokens to use?

I'd suggest replacing the tokens with the new player's tokens, but then I realized, "What if their tokens are already in play?"

[gunpowdertea]

I'd say that because the tokens signify the two tiles are linked, any capture, seduction or dragon gobblage that happens to one, has the same effect on the other, with the one follower (on tile 2) acting as proxy meeple for both and in case of any prisoner taking on tile 1.

e.g. - player 1 is on pilgrimage. player 2 builds tower and captures player 1's tile 1 (with just the token). Follower from player 1's tile 2 is taken prisoner and the tokens removed from the game.


With the dragon: if the dragon lands on either of the two tiles, the tokens are removed from the game and the follower is returned to the player.


I think with the Catapult: If either is seduced, the catapulting player may swap his tokens (assuming he hasn't played them yet) and a follower directly with the player's currently on the board. If his tokens are already in play then he may deploy 1 follower onto the cloister (or shrine) that was closest to the seduction token when it landed.


[The idea being that the only entitlement the player has to tile 2 is based on the strength of ownership gifted him by the 'praying' from tile 1's token, so if tile 1 is compromised, tile 2 has no 'buoyancy']


That sound ok? I'm wary of making it too easy because of the potential bonus points for the player playing the tokens, so I don't think Tile 1 should be granted any immunity from attack.

[loganmann1]

So really the two tokens and the meeple all represent one follower and any affect on any part of that set is treated as affecting the whole when applying unique expansion rules. 

I think that sounds fair enough.  Clearly defining that makes it easier to combine with any other expansion without needing specific explanations in the rule set for Pilgrimage.

[Gwommy]

And just to be difficult, I think that those features shouldn't affect the tokens, but if the follower on a token is affected, then both tokens should be returned to its owner.  But, it's what ever you choose to do, GPT.

[gunpowdertea]

And just to be difficult, I think that those features shouldn't affect the tokens, but if the follower on a token is affected, then both tokens should be returned to its owner.  But, it's what ever you choose to do, GPT.

Thinking about it I agree with you gwommy.

If a player is using the tokens, he might easily find himself in a situation where one or both of the cloisters are rendered unfinishable until drawing the 1 or 2 tiles with the right configuration to complete both and score. In my experience, this can often last for a long while, so during this time, if using some of the crueller expansions, he's doubly open to attack for a potentially long time if both tokens are prone, which seems perhaps unfair as the bonus isn't huge.

In terms of tokens being returned to a player it makes sense because although they could be used more than once, there are conditions for using them, which aren't always going to be met. Admittedly if using shrines then one condition is removed, but actually by adding shrines the other condition is statistically less likely to be met so I guess that's fine too. Also, it's just easier if the tokens are not on the board without a follower.

So: token w. no follower = immune from any attack; token w. follower = prone to attack and if follower is removed from the tile the tokens are returned to the player (and I guess now they're returned if both features are completed and scored before the end of the game) Sound fair/balanced, or too generous?

[loganmann1]

I think either way is fine as long as its clearly defined.  I think this last summary sounds good without being to generous.  I think the conditions are specific enough this won't be a runaway point stealer but a nice ace in the hole when the situation is right.

[gunpowdertea]

Ok first draft of final rules. Please poke it for holes and tell me if it's easily understandable or not



Pilgrimage

In times of great hardship the religious men may sometimes surrender themselves to the power of prayer in order to prevail. One with much fortitude and bravery is chosen to embark on a pilgrimage to plant the seed of their faith in a remote location in the land of Carcassonne and through his pious brethren's targeted genuflection he is bouyed on his journey of enlightenment.


Extra Pieces

• This expansion consists of 12 coloured tokens  (2 of each in the standard player colours)


Preparation

• Distribute the tokens so each player has 2 of his own colour prior to starting the game


Gameplay

In order to use the tokens and leave on a pilgrimage, the player must meet two requirements at the time of drawing a Cloister tile:

1. The player must have no followers in his possession to deploy*.
2. The player must be in ownership of an uncompleted Cloister**

* - If playing with The Cult expansion, the tokens may also be used with Shrines. The player may also use his tokens whether he has deployable followers or not when using this expansion.
** - If playing with The Cult, the newly drawn tile's feature must be of the same classification as an owned and uncompleted feature; that is to say, if the player draws a Shrine, he must have an uncompleted Shrine on the board, and if he draws a Cloister, he must have an uncompleted Cloister on the board.

If these requirements are met then the player may lay the new Cloister tile in accordance with the rules and transfer to this tile the follower from the uncompleted Cloister. The player then places one of their tokens on the tile the follower has just been transferred from, and the other token is placed underneath the follower that has just been relocated.


The two Cloisters are now linked by the Pilgrimage tokens, so no scoring takes place until both features have been completed or at the end of the game.

[ If using Carcassone expansions which allow followers to be removed e.g The Princess and the Dragon, The Catapult, The Tower; the tile with just the token on may not be targeted and is in effect immune to attack. The tile with both the token and the follower however is susceptible to attack, capture or removal and in that event, both tokens are returned to the player's supply. In the case of Seduction from The Catapult expansion, only the tile with the follower is prone and if it is hit then both tokens may be swapped for those of a different players, with their follower deployed on the same tile as the previous player's follower was removed from.]

[If playing with The Cult expansion - One Shrine may challenge either of the two tiles with tokens on. In this case, both of the player using the token's Cloisters or Shrines must be completed before their opponent's Cloister or Shrine in order to score the points. If the player is beaten by their opponent, they receive no points for either feature and their follower and tokens are returned. If both of the players in competition are using the tokens, then the first to complete both of their features wins the points. If a challenge has not been resolved by the end of the game, both players receive the points from their own tokened features.]

Final Scoring

Upon both Cloisters being completed, or at the end of the game, the scoring is as follows:

• For the Cloister with only the token on it, the player is awarded 1 pt per tile in it's territory, as a normal Cloister would be scored.

• For the Cloister with both the follower and the token, the player only scores the surrounding tiles without city features, receiving 2 pts for each of these. Any tile in the cloister's territory with any city parts depicted on it is not scored.
.
The follower and tokens are now returned to the player's supply.

[loganmann1]

Suggested edits...

Pilgrimage

In times of great hardship the religious men may sometimes surrender themselves to the power of prayer in order to prevail. One with much fortitude and bravery is chosen to embark on a pilgrimage to plant the seed of their faith in a remote location in the land of Carcassonne and through his pious brethren's targeted genuflection he is bouyed on his journey of enlightenment.

...

Gameplay

In order to use the tokens and leave on a pilgrimage, the player must meet two requirements at the time of drawing a Cloister tile:

1. The player must have no followers in his possession to deploy.*
2. The player must be in ownership of an uncompleted Cloister.**

...

If these requirements are met then the player may lay the new Cloister tile in accordance with the rules and transfer to this tile the follower from the uncompleted Cloister to this tile. The player then places one of their tokens on the uncompleted cloistertile the follower has just been transferred from, and the other token is placed underneath the follower on the newly claimed cloisterthat has just been relocated.


The two Cloisters are now linked by the Pilgrimage tokens.  No scoring for either cloister will take so no scoring takes place until both features have been completed or at the end of the game.

...

[If playing with The Cult expansion - One Shrine/cloister may challenge either of the two cloisters/shrines tiles with tokens on them. In this case, both of the cloisters/shrines with tokensplayer using the token's Cloisters or Shrines must be completed before their opponent's Cloister or Shrine in order to score the points. If the player is beaten by their opponent, they receive no points for either feature and their follower and tokens are returned. If both of the players in competition are using the tokens, then the first to complete both of their features wins the points. If a challenge has not been resolved by the end of the game, both players receive the points from their own tokenesd features.]

...

These are just a few grammatical suggestions...though I realize I used Bold to designate added text and you have a few things in there that were bold already for emphasis. Sorry, that might make it a little confusing. My bolds were purely possible additoinal text...not bolds for emphasis.