Expansion idea - Pilgrimage

[gunpowdertea]

This is my first attempt so I'm keeping it simple.

I've found often in mid-late game that people often draw a cloister, but have no followers left to deploy. So what about this:

Pilgrimage

2 Tiles and 2 chips (artwork just for demonstration purposes):



The 2 tiles are mixed in with the rest at the beginning of the game. The chips are kept to the side (like trade good chips are).

If someone draws a pilgrimage tile, they take one of the chips and put them both in their stash to use later, and draw another tile to resume their turn.

In a later turn, if a player with a pilgrimage tile draws a cloister (and only a cloister may be used with this expansion) but has no followers to deploy, they may remove a monk from a clositer they currently own (but have not completed), place the chip in his place (the hands are meant to signify that unseen 'remaining monks' at the cloister are praying for the newly departed monk on his pilgrimage, and the strength of their prayer is enough to keep his 'presence' i.e. the players possession of the now unmanned cloister, active) and immediately relocate the monk onto the newly drawn clositer tile.

The scoring with the chip either during play or at the end of the game is the same as scoring with a regular follower. Come the end of the game the pilgrimage tile functions in the same way as the abbey tile in that there is no penalty for not using it.

Any thoughts, suggestions, comments?

I'm interested in how this might work with the Shrines expansion too, as I havent played it.

[Gwommy]

I think it'd work.  As more and more expansions are added to the game, it seems like the scoring value of cloisters and shirnes go down(meaning it's easier to score 9 or more points elsewhere, like for a city).  I would think that not having to use a meeple for these features should help increase its value again.  And I guess  with only two tiles, you wouldn't really need to have a way to signify the owner of each each prayer token, but it would be nice.

As for shrines, they work in the exact same manner as a cloister so I wouldn't see any problem with using it for either one.  The only difference is that when a shrine and cloister are placed next to each other, then points only go to the player that finishes their feature first.

[gunpowdertea]

Maybe if everyone got one of these at the start



and it only becomes playable if they draw the tile. I usually only play with 1 or 2 others so it didn't really occur to me that it might get confusing with more players if they weren't assigned. Thanks

[elmendalerenda]

Well, it seems a good idea to me, as Gwommy pointed, cloister/shrines aren´t used very often (unless placing it will score inmediately or there are only two tiles left to finish)

As Gwommy suggested can become an expansion requiring an extra meeple that can be used only on cloistes/shrines.

[gunpowdertea]

Ok what about everyone gets 2 chips of their own colour at the start. Then:

1. Player draws a cloister or shrine, deploys monk/heretic
2. Player draws 2nd cloister/shrine, and (if in possession of the pilgrimage tile) so long as the first cloister/shrine is uncompleted may exchange the follower from there for a chip.
3. He immediately places the relocated follower onto the new cloister/shrine, standing on top of the 2nd chip.
4. The chips remain down til the end of the game, but the follower may be returned only when scoring takes place, which in turn may only happen when both of the shrines/cloisters have been completed.
5. Player will then score the standard 9 pts from each of the properties, with...
6. ...an additional bonus of 12 points (if 2 shrines or 2 cloisters have been completed) for a total of 30pts
    or
7. ...a smaller bonus of 6 pts if it was 1 cloister and 1 shrine, for a total of 20pts


So it's basically the Tunnels expansion but for cloisters/shrines with a bonus incentive.


Or maybe it should be only executable when you have zero followers left to place, and with a bigger bonus? The tile, if drawn, is kept in the stash so it could be used at any time by someone with no meeples but already a cloister/shrine on the go.

[Gwommy]

Wouldn't a bonus of 6 points be a total of 24, not 20? (9+9+6)

==EDIT==
BTW- I think that only having the two prayer tokens is a good idea (no need to draw a tile for it).  Although, when placing your first follower on a cloister, then you should have to place it with the token.  Then when you place a second cloister or shrine, then you may choose to place the other token.  And like you said, it doesn't get scored until both features with the tokens are finished.  And I think the 6 point bonus sounds reasonable.

[gunpowdertea]

hehe yes, thanks. Shameful maths skills here

I like your idea with just needing the tokens to do it. But perhaps have just 1 tile in the bag for extra bonus pts...so when scoring, if the player's in possession of the tile, add an extra 10 bonus points on top if it's 1 cloister and 1 shrine, and add 15 bonus points if it's 2 shrines or 2 cloisters?

That way, everyone can play their tokens and get a bonus, but the player with the tile gets an extra bonus, assuming of course they haven't already used their tokens, in which case the tile should probably be removed from the game.

so it'd be:

1 cloiser + 1 shrine = 24 pts, or 34 with the tile
2 cloister/2 shrines = 30 pts, or 45 with the tile

Or perhaps if that's bonus points overkill, the tile can instead be 'cashed in' by the player in possession of it to reclaim his tokens from the board after scoring for one more play of them?

[Gwommy]

The bonus might be a bit of an overkill.  Also, with only one tile, then only one random player gets the bonus points.  It pretty much negates any skill in earning the points.  Just my opinion.

[CKorfmann]

This sounds like an interesting expansion.  The rules that I think I like the best are...

Everyone gets two chits,
no tile,
use the chit when you run out of followers,
both cloisters with chits must be finished.

It seems to me that there should be no bonus.  Being able to use the chit at all already seems like a 9 point bonus to me.  I feel like the number of available bonus points (with any expansion) should be tied to the difficulty of completing the feature.  This would be fairly easy to complete so should not really yield many/any bonus points.  If we're keeping it simple and all...

That's my two cents. 

[elmendalerenda]

My 3 cents 

When a player scores a shrine/cloister with a normal meeple, he gets a pilgrim chit that he can use as a priest meeple from that point on. If he scores another shrine/cloister with a regular meeple he gets another pilgrim. This way encourages the players to use meeples on shrines and reward those player who risk their meeples.

Because running out of meeples hoping to draw a shrine to use a pilgrim chit can be very risky and dont think lot of people will take that risk.

Sincerely shrines/cloister should have more relevance, come on its middle ages, the priest had lot of power and that should be reflected on the game.

[CKorfmann]

I think The Missionary helps with that a little bit.  It can end up sitting there a long time though.  I'm thinking if there would be a way to use The Missionary with this expansion...  Any ideas?

[gunpowdertea]

The bonus might be a bit of an overkill.  Also, with only one tile, then only one random player gets the bonus points.  It pretty much negates any skill in earning the points.  Just my opinion.

Yeah I agree. Any reward should be skill based, not arbitrary.

This sounds like an interesting expansion.  The rules that I think I like the best are...

Everyone gets two chits,
no tile,
use the chit when you run out of followers,
both cloisters with chits must be finished.

It seems to me that there should be no bonus.  Being able to use the chit at all already seems like a 9 point bonus to me.  I feel like the number of available bonus points (with any expansion) should be tied to the difficulty of completing the feature.  This would be fairly easy to complete so should not really yield many/any bonus points.  If we're keeping it simple and all...

That's my two cents. 

I think you're right. It'd be enough to simply have them, but maybe there should be the possibility of a small skill-related bonus

So what about this:

- Everyone gets two tokens,
- No tile,
- Tokens may only be used when the player has no followers left.
- Both cloisters and/or shrines with tokens must be completed in order to score
- The tokens stay on the board after scoring and may not be used again

then, with scoring:

- The original cloister/shrine will always score 9 pts, but when scoring the second cloister/shrine, (the strength of the 1st cloister/shrine's brethrens' prayers being stronger when the most recently placed shrine or cloister is isolated from 'the world' so they can 'concentrate' their prayer to a single location) it scores the standard 9pts, plus an additional 1pt for each of the 8 surrounding tiles that have no city parts on them. And if the 2nd cloister/shrine remains uncompleted at the end of the game, each city tile is -1 pt from the total.

That way there is an element of risk and also some skill as to where the player decides to place their 2nd tile. Also it's a one-time action that everyone can perform, and the potential 8pt bonus can be diminished by other players thus more strategy.

[CKorfmann]

That sounds pretty good.  As long as it's not automatic.  You'll have to make sure you can clearly explain it though.

[loganmann1]

I like your idea with just needing the tokens to do it. But perhaps have just 1 tile in the bag for extra bonus pts...so when scoring, if the player's in possession of the tile, add an extra 10 bonus points on top if it's 1 cloister and 1 shrine, and add 15 bonus points if it's 2 shrines or 2 cloisters?

That way, everyone can play their tokens and get a bonus, but the player with the tile gets an extra bonus, assuming of course they haven't already used their tokens, in which case the tile should probably be removed from the game.

so it'd be:

1 cloiser + 1 shrine = 24 pts, or 34 with the tile
2 cloister/2 shrines = 30 pts, or 45 with the tile

The discussion seems to have moved away from the idea of bonuses being based on cloister/shrine, cloister/cloister or shrine/shrine combinations, but in gunpowdertea's last post it still listed that "- Both cloisters and/or shrines with tokens must be completed in order to score."

This brings to mind the thought that one way or the other cloisters and shrines are supposed to represent opposing religions, hence the competion for completion.  It wouldn't make sense for a monk on a cloister to pilgrimage to a shrine and become a heritic.  Perhaps this has already been clarified but it seems like this expansion should only be used between two cloisters or two shrines, not a mix of both.  Otherwise though I'm excited to try this.

[CKorfmann]

It wouldn't make sense for a monk on a cloister to pilgrimage to a shrine and become a heritic.

I agree...