Roman influence expansion

[djdahmer]

What does solazy's Coliseum do or where could I find the rules for it to look at

Here's the short version since I can't find the link right now.  The tile has an arena which looks kinda like the Roman Coliseum with roads on all for sides.  When you put a follwer on it (as a gladiator) you get 5 points for every completed city at the other end of each road.  This is where road branches could be really beneficial.  If you choose to use your large follower, you get 6 points per completed city... something like that.  :-]

The tiles & rules are on BoardGameGeek here. The description that comes with the tiles states:

Coliseum:  Place a follower (Gladiator) in the coliseum and he will get points from completion of the roads leading from the coliseum.  For each road that ends in a city, the player gets 5 points (6 points if Big Follower is placed in the coliseum).  For the builders of the roads, roads that are finished with a city are doubled in points (like with an Inn, but does not stack with an Inn), roads that finish any other way are worth normal points.  Unfinished roads may or may not be worth zero, that is up to you, I haven’t tried it out yet to decide how to balance it best.  Gladiator is returned on completion of all roads leading from Coliseum.  Alternate rules could be that road end-points such as trees or cottages do not stop connection of the Coliseum to a City, in which case points could be awarded to the Gladiator for multiple cities from each road.  In that case, point awards could be reduced to 4 (or 5) instead of 5 (or 6).

[loganmann1]

The Amphitheater coud be used as a road based version of the Bath in the city.  The Bath idea of gaining points based on the number of followers in the city could be used on a road and travellers on the road stop for a performance at the amphitheater. There may not be as much potential there so perhaps thats a waste of a good structure, but theres a possible use.

What if the aquaduct were a feature coming off the outside of a city wall, going into a field and the city gains extra points for each farmer in the field cause they are paying the city for providing this water?

[CKorfmann]

The Amphitheater coud be used as a road based version of the Bath in the city.  The Bath idea of gaining points based on the number of followers in the city could be used on a road and travellers on the road stop for a performance at the amphitheater. There may not be as much potential there so perhaps thats a waste of a good structure, but theres a possible use.

I like that idea.  With several tiles providing an opportunity for multiple players to contribute followers, it will force everyone to be more cautious with them and make them more strategic. 

What if the aquaduct were a feature coming off the outside of a city wall, going into a field and the city gains extra points for each farmer in the field cause they are paying the city for providing this water?

Thats a pretty good idea for the aquaduct.  I was thinking of it providing water to the city, not the other way around.  I suppose that's an equal possibility.  It would be easier to do than building one from the river to the city.  Although... I just had an idea.  Maybe we could use Catan road pieces as an aquaduct from a river to a city.  The longer it is, the more points its worth. 

[loganmann1]

Although... I just had an idea.  Maybe we could use Catan road pieces as an aquaduct from a river to a city.  The longer it is, the more points its worth. 

Road pieces could be an interesting gimmic.  So there is some water source (be it the river or a single special spring tile or whatever) and then players build the aquaduct from there to different cities.  Would you give each player their own pieces and they each build their own or have them all work on one and whoever connects it to a completed city gets the points...or maybe whoever completes a city connected to the aquaduct gets a bonus of some number of points even if they don't score for the city.  So everyone builds the aquaduct to an incomplete city and then they race to finish the city to get the bonus points.  This could be open for multiple aquaducts to go to multiple cities.  Maybe once that city is completed it can then be used as a base to build another aquaduct to a further city.

Technically this is more like you being the Romans versus just having their influence still there but I think its cool.  If this doesn't end up being used because its so different from the other ideas so far then maybe it could be another expansion of its own somehow.  Irrigation Canals or something. 

[CKorfmann]

If this doesn't end up being used because its so different from the other ideas so far then maybe it could be another expansion of its own somehow.  Irrigation Canals or something.

That actually sounds like a better option than trying to include it in this expansion.

[meepleater]

I think irrigation canals sounds like another idea altogether. Personally I'd love to see some aquaducts like the walls in the solazy expansion- connecting roads and cities, maybe making both worth extra points, connecting them (trading post and wagon) and separating fields. My 2 cents.

[loganmann1]

To see if I’m on the same page as everyone at this point...by way of summary thus far this expansion is be 12 tiles (+/-).  Thus far it will include:

-Roman Road: Roads must be added to this road until it is completed
-Temple (possibly multiple…same as # of cathedrals?): Unclaimable feature, the Cult equivalent of the Cathedral
-JPutt’s Chariot Race (possibly): Betting on the races, bonus to roads nearby
-Solazy’s Coliseum: Claimable feature, gains points for completed cities connected to it
-Basilica: Unclaimed feature in a city that once completed (same way as Lord of the Manor) it gives a bonus (10pts?) to the finisher and there after grants 15-18 points to all completed cloisters (vs the normal 9).
-Roman Forum: Claimable feature, played in someone else’s city, scores 1 point per tile in the city for the owner
-Roman Bath: Claimable feature, A player could deploy a follower to the bath. Upon completion of the city, the bath owner get somewhere between 3-5 points for every follower that's within the city.
-Roman Theater: Same concept as the bath but on a road.
-Aqueduct: No sure consensus yet on how to use.

Is this about right?

Looking at that, it seems that the forum, bath and theater could all be used a couple times (only 1 coliseum though) as they are simple mechanics and not to overly powerful.  I wouldn’t want to just fill up the expansion that way though.

Concerning the aqueduct:
One aqueduct idea bouncing around would be a feature off the side of a city into a field giving water one to the other and granting extra points to the city or to the farmer, it would need to be decided.  Another is using them like solazy’s walls (was permission granted to use any of his ideas or just Coliseum?) for breaking up farms and possibly granting extra points. I think those are the ideas still being considered.

One other possible feature would be a gymnasium.  Maybe you could play a meeple on it and increase its value by 1 for the rest of the game so a normal follower would now count as 2 and the big follower could now count as 3.  Each player could 1 up 1 meeple and mark them with a token for the rest of the game.  Maybe even the mayor could get a +1 if he goes to the gym. I know there are some other expansions used to upgrade and increase meeples but I’m not familiar with their mechanics.  So maybe this has already been done.

[CKorfmann]

The gymnasium sounds like an interesting idea the way you've explained it.  If we go with the list you have though, with only one Temple (excluding the aquaduct), that's 12 tiles.  I think we should go with one of everything except possibly the Temple.  What if we made it 15 tiles and included the second Temple, the Gymnasium, and another.  Perhaps an aquaduct tile if we can figure out the mechanics. 

As far as your list, I believe you've got everything correct as far as we've discussed it.

[loganmann1]

If jputt's chariot race is used we are going to be adding a lot more then just tiles to this.  It has a 2x2 tile and betting tokens and such.  I don't know if that additional material should be taken into account with this.  There was an aquaduct idea adding catan roads but thats already been voted down making chariot race the only one adding more than just a tile.

If we go with the list you have though, with only one Temple (excluding the aquaduct), that's 12 tiles. 

1 Roman Road
2 Temples
1 Chariot Race
1 Coliseum
1 Basilica
2 Forums
2 Baths
2 Theater

I count 12 if there are two temples, forums, baths, and theaters...and still excluding the aquaduct.  I seem to be one off from you. And thats only assuming we do 2 of all those others.  I was unsure of how final the forum rules are...maybe it could be more valuable and have just one like the coliseum. That adds one more spot if we kept it at 12.

Though right now we still have a gymnasium and an aquaduct to try and include.

But, looking at the list, all of these are single tile expansions except for Chariot Race which adds a 2x2 tile and betting tokens and such.  Though the theme is right for this expansion, I wonder if this expansion might not be to extensive to incorporate with the rest of these. I've never tried it though so I can't really say.

[Gwommy]

I'd say not having the Chariot Race since it is already its own expansion, and it would add a lot of extra stuff to have to make.

I'd also vote against having the Roman Roads and Temple for the same reason, it is already its own expansion.  Of course, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad to use these if you changed the tile formations, like from FRFR to FFRR or CRFR.

So without those tiles, I'd suggest adding another Forum or two, a Bath, and a Theatre.  Also for the theatre, I'd make it worth twice as many points as the number of followers on a road, because it's very seldom that there's more than one follower on a road.

[loganmann1]

I'd also vote against having the Roman Roads and Temple for the same reason, it is already its own expansion.  Of course, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad to use these if you changed the tile formations, like from FRFR to FFRR or CRFR.

I believe these two were CKorfmann's inspiration for making this larger expansion and was based on Joff's Medieval model where they are really separate expansions with a similar theme but can be downloaded together on one nice page but then played separately as you like.  If we really follow that idea I think it would be fine to include these two.

For example I personally would probably play the Temple only if i'm playing inns and cathedrals and the cult cause it merges those two, but i may play some of these others more frequently.

If we do choose not to include road and temple maybe we could just add one more temple on a different tile formation so that a player can have 2 to use between the two expansions.  I don't think I'd do this with the Road though because the mechanic is designed around it being the one special road on the table and i don't know how you'd remedy several in play at once (unless its just a different tile arrangment and you just pick one to include in your game).

Joff also has separate rules sets for all his though I don't know if thats what CKorfmann was thinking for this.  I don't much care for 12 separate rule sets but a couple could be okay I suppose since each of these features has a unique gimmic.  Baths and theaters can certainly be on the same one. Road and Temple already have one. At this point I'm still thinking more of fleshing out the tiles then organizing the rules.

Oh and I like the idea of having the theater worth more then the bath.

[loganmann1]

Sorry for the double post...

I finally looked at Solazy's expansion after its been reference so many time here and I would just say that his Barracks and Outpost ideas could well be used to a roman theme too.  A Roman Barracks and Roman Outpost doing basically the same as what solazy suggests.  A meeple placed on the barracks or outpost count as 2 meeples on the city or road respectively.  Maybe its to similar to the gymnasium idea of increasing a meeples count but I think it could fit Roman Influence well.  Maybe these with the Gymnasium would actually be good.  All ways to up your meeples...some temporarily, some permanently.  Roman soldiers and all that. (He also has a tile that does this same thing for farmers but that one doesn't translate so well to the Roman theme.  "Roman Ranch," "Caesar's Pigsty" I don't know how to transition that one though it would be nice to have that one to)

2 of each of these might push this expansion to far in size, but I think they'd be good.   

Of course thats one more Solazy based theme along with Coliseum and possibly aquaducts if we adapt his walls as Gwommy suggested...but I think they all can fit well with the Roman idea.

[meepleater]

Personally imagine more than one aquaduct tile (the idea being to link them up) in joining a road to a city. This could be a separate expansion altogether. Maybe this could become a series (like treasure hunt or fields) etc. that all the roman themed expansions could be kept together, while at the same time not being a flood of ideas.

[Gwommy]

Personally imagine more than one aquaduct tile (the idea being to link them up) in joining a road to a city. This could be a separate expansion altogether. Maybe this could become a series (like treasure hunt or fields) etc. that all the roman themed expansions could be kept together, while at the same time not being a flood of ideas.

I like that idea.  just use the Roman bath, forum, theatre and basilica for this expansion, and then make an additional expansion for the aquaducts, and group them on the download page under a Roman theme group, much like how the Medieval set is done.

[CKorfmann]

Personally imagine more than one aquaduct tile (the idea being to link them up) in joining a road to a city. This could be a separate expansion altogether. Maybe this could become a series (like treasure hunt or fields) etc. that all the roman themed expansions could be kept together, while at the same time not being a flood of ideas.

I like that idea.  just use the Roman bath, forum, theatre and basilica for this expansion, and then make an additional expansion for the aquaducts, and group them on the download page under a Roman theme group, much like how the Medieval set is done.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner! 

...I would just say that his Barracks and Outpost ideas could well be used to a roman theme too.  (He also has a tile that does this same thing for farmers but that one doesn't translate so well to the Roman theme.  "Roman Ranch," "Caesar's Pigsty" I don't know how to transition that one though it would be nice to have that one to).

This also sounds like a separate expansion package.  I like the Ranch.  I used it for the first time today.

I believe these two were CKorfmann's inspiration for making this larger expansion and was based on Joff's Medieval model where they are really separate expansions with a similar theme but can be downloaded together on one nice page but then played separately as you like.

Yes, you understand me perfectly.  That's also why I included the Chariot Race.  My intention is also to include the 2x2 tile as 4 seperate tiles for those who don't have access to extra chip board, but do have extra tiles.  I suppose it poses the same problem for the markers and chits, but it wouldn't be terrible to use paper for those since they are not fixtures on the board.  Including all these and the Coliseum makes a total of 8 and left us 4 tiles to come up with for the theme set of 12.

However, if we go with Gwommy's idea, we could skip the Chariot Race, and add the Gymnasium to loganmann's list and we have 12.,

At this point I'm still thinking more of fleshing out the tiles then organizing the rules.

I'm with you there, though I agree that we'll need to deal with the rules at some point.

Also for the theatre, I'd make it worth twice as many points as the number of followers on a road, because it's very seldom that there's more than one follower on a road.

That's an excellent point.  We might need to revisit the mechanics of this one, but it might work as is too.