Carcassonne - Das Schicksalsrad NEW

[mjharper]

Clearly all the contents of the book will be lost on me as I don't speak German      Any info on the book?

From first glance, the book seems to be a fairly high quality publication. The author has written several historical novels before, one of which concerned the Cathars and Carcassonne, and is probably what caught the attention of HiG. I haven't actually looked at the text itself, so I can't vouch for the content, but it certainly looks like a decent tie-in. But I doubt that the new expansion will only be available with the book, and my reasoning behind that is the packaging.

As you'd expect from an expansion which doubles as a replacement of the basic game, the box is the same size as the original Carcassonne. The book arrived in a cardboard surround which exactly matched that - so the package was twice the width of the original box. The two things were bound together in a single plastic cover. But the game itself was separately wrapped - the book was most definitely an addition to a pre-packed game. (Sorry if I'm not as clear as I could be, had a few of beers).

Point is that the game looked to me as if it was meant to be sold separately without the book, which would make sense if you bear in mind the distinctly 'limited' feel of the package I received. My guess is that there will be a cheaper game-only edition available before long, and anyone who wishes to import the game from Germany to (say) the US but has no interest in the book should probably wait a little, as the book doubles the size of the package.

The tile distribution is diferent from the basic game.

I think is a combination whith tiles coming from the base and the 1st expansion.

I think you might be right. I'll have a closer look tomorrow.

[Whaleyland]

Considering that you have mentioned numerous times that this is a replacement for the base game, as well as an expansion, I assume it comes with a full set of followers and a score board (?). Does it come with five or six sets and does it include the gray 50/100 point counters?

From reviewing your scans—which are beautiful, by the way, and I feel need to be uploaded to BGG post haste—I fear that a US/English adaptation of the game may only come with the 19 "Fate" tiles and the wheel (with pig), leaving out the other 53 tiles that are exact duplicates of earlier tiles. I can't see Jay, for some reason, releasing a whole new counter-edition of the base game, it just doesn't seem his style. He is about releasing new things, not copies of old things (re: not releasing Count, King & Consort but creating Cult, Siege & Creativity instead). I will email him. I've messaged him about six times before, so he may be expecting me (lol, probably not). I'll post his reply as soon as I can coax it out of him.

[Whaleyland]

Someone posted some pictures on BGG and I thought I'd repost them here for our enjoyment.

The box art on the back:


The book box that Matthew spoke of:


The Wheel and some tiles integrated in full play (with Pig included!):


And again, despite the game being in a sense an expansion, it seems that HiG is not anticipating this to be anything less than a full base-game replacement component, since they have not placed an expansion number on the cover or back of the box, as they have done with all the other large expansions. I guess we have a new base-game to include in our "own" list on CarcCentral. (Ahem, will some admin/moderator please add the expansion to the list? Please?)

[Novelty]

Fate's a pig, and then you pork it...

That made me laugh.

New watermark.  Compatible with the base game.  I'll call this an expansion.  Eep!  Here's our 2009 expansion.  I hope RGG makes an English version (without the book).

Whaley, when I saw the wheel and matt's comment that it's the starting tile, it made me think of you and your attempts at the additional starting tiles.  Perhaps you can make a variant of the wheel with all the other versions.

[Whaleyland]

Perhaps you can make a variant of the wheel with all the other versions.

That's extra funny since I just read Scott's remarks that we have begun making too many cross-compatible expansions. lol. Well, anyway, I guess if HiG hasn't done it yet, maybe they have a point. I think I will stick with making a moated City of Carcassonne (with two river outlets, to satisfy my lust for expanding things to other expansions. :-D )

Anywho, so I contacted Jay and am awaiting a reply. I also updated the BGG entry for the game. So it looks nice. I can't wait, Matthew, for you to give your opinions and review of the rules.

[Scott]

I like the idea of the wheel of fate; much better than Catapult and accomplishes some of the same goals.

This feels like a replacement for the base game more than an expansion, though I also haven't played a double base game like others have. If you did combine the two, would everybody get double the number of regular meeples?

[CKorfmann]

If you did combine the two, would everybody get double the number of regular meeples?

I've often wondered that myself.  I use a scoring program on my laptop, so sometimes when we play mega-carc, I use the 8th meeple since there are so many tiles.  Especially if there are only two or three people playing.

[meepleater]

The tile distribution is diferent from the basic game.

I think is a combination whith tiles coming from the base and the 1st expansion.

I also noticed at least 1 from Traders and Builders and 2 from King and Scout... (in addition to about 6 from Inns and Cathedrals)

[Novelty]

Which are the 2 from K&S?

[meepleater]

The CFFR (also in A&M, but originally in K&S), and CRRR with one road leaving the city and going left, another road going from the bottom to the right is also from K&S.

The CRFF is from T&B.

All these tiles are in the bottom of matt's tile images...

[mjharper]

Considering that you have mentioned numerous times that this is a replacement for the base game, as well as an expansion, I assume it comes with a full set of followers and a score board (?). Does it come with five or six sets and does it include the gray 50/100 point counters?

It comes with five sets of eight followers in blue, yellow, green, red and black. The 50/100 point tokens are absent. With the somewhat different tile distribution from the original, my feeling is that this could be used as an alternative to the basic game, but it could also be used in its entirety as an expansion.

Just re-packaging the original game with a couple of numbers on some tiles would have left a many players disappointed. But they've managed to make a set which should appeal to (completely) new players and old hacks like us, with a minimum of redundancy.

From reviewing your scans—which are beautiful, by the way, and I feel need to be uploaded to BGG post haste—I fear that a US/English adaptation of the game may only come with the 19 "Fate" tiles and the wheel (with pig), leaving out the other 53 tiles that are exact duplicates of earlier tiles. I can't see Jay, for some reason, releasing a whole new counter-edition of the base game, it just doesn't seem his style. He is about releasing new things, not copies of old things (re: not releasing Count, King & Consort but creating Cult, Siege & Creativity instead). I will email him. I've messaged him about six times before, so he may be expecting me (lol, probably not). I'll post his reply as soon as I can coax it out of him.

I think that's quite possible. But on the other hand, the wheel of fate itself covers 16 tiles, and it's inclusion is probably the motivation behind the whole replacement basic game thing. That one piece is as wide as the box, and it would look terrible if cut into separate tiles the way The Count of Carcassonne is. There's arguments for and against creating a 'pure' expansion version.

If you did combine the two, would everybody get double the number of regular meeples?

I don't think so. HiG has always been against that. Nice to have some spares, but the meeples are probably the biggest redundancy of the set.

sometimes when we play mega-carc, I use the 8th meeple since there are so many tiles.

You ain't seen nothin' yet. This box adds 72 tiles, plus the outer 12 of the wheel can be scored. That's effectively 84 new tiles in one expansion - or about a 30% increase over the previous maxed-out game of mega-Carc. A new maxed-out game should take a day to play, and you won't need a table, you'll need a room.

[Novelty]

Matt, could you show us a photo of the internal of the box as well?  I'm curious as to how it looks.

Also, if you could show us a comparison of the pink pig with the other pigs (and the agricola boar), I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks.

[Whaleyland]

Okay, I have a little time now and so am doing a complete comparison of Carcassonne versus The Wheel of Fate tile summaries:

Carcassonne  =  Wheel of Fate
CCCC 1 = 1
CCCF  3 =  2 (+ 1 on Wheel)
CCCF w/Pennant  1 = 1
CCCR  1 = 1
CCCR w/Pennant  2 = 2 
CCFF  3 = 2
CCFF w/Pennant  2 = 2
CCFF w/2 cities  2 = 2
CCRR 3 = 2
CCRR w/Pennant  2 = 2
CFCF  1 = 2
CFCF w/Pennant  2 = 2
CFCF w/2 cities 3 = 2
CFFF 5 = 4 (+2 on Wheel)
CFRR 3 = 2
CRFR 4 = 4 (includes start tile)
CRRF 3 = 2
CRRR 3 = 2
FFFF w/Cloister 4 = 4
FFFR w/Cloister 2 = 2
FFRR 9 = 8
FRFR 8 = 7 (+3 on Wheel)
FRRR 4 = 4
RRRR 1 = 1
TOTAL 72 = 63 (+6 from Wheel)

From Inns & Cathedrals:
CCCF w/3 cities = 1
CCFR = 1 (without Inn)
CCRF = 1
CFRF = 1
FRFR w/Cloister = 1
RRRR w/2 roads = 1
TOTAL = 6

From Traders & Builders:
CRFF = 1
TOTAL = 1

From King & Scout:
CFFR = 1
CRRR = 1
TOTAL = 2

From Games Quarterly #11:
FFFF = (+6 from Wheel)

GRAND TOTAL = 72 (+12 from Wheel)

So it looks like they borrowed 9 tiles from three of the first four expansions (no River tiles). In so doing, they didn't change the number of Pennants at all, but they did add one Cloister from I&C. They also removed the Inn from one of the tiles. To achieve this replacement, they mostly reduced the number of high-volume tiles from the base game and did that by replacing them with similar tiles (ie FRFR w/Cloister for FRFR from base game) or providing more complicated road tiles to reduce field size. A smart move all around, since the base game always suffered from oversize fields. It seems HiG did their homework and wisely left the newer expansion (post-T&B) tiles untouched.

The Wheel tile itself provides an element of probable unknown circumstances. Without even playing, I have formulated some questions that Matthew needs to send to HiG since I doubt they are answered in the included rules:
1. Three roads venture behind the wheel, so are they ended? or do they connect?
2. Since the tiles are clearly outlined on the Wheel tile, can Magic Portals transport followers to a Wheel tile?
3. Can the Dragon cross the visible wheel tiles?
4. Does the Wheel count for any points as a landscape feature?
5. Are the three fields on the Wheel tile connected or separate?

Ah, you've got to love the need for an annotated rules document.

[mjharper]

Matt, could you show us a photo of the internal of the box as well?  I'm curious as to how it looks.

Also, if you could show us a comparison of the pink pig with the other pigs (and the agricola boar), I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks.

Your wish is my command - sorry for poor quality, taken on phone camera.

[Novelty]

Thank you Matt.  That pig looks to be porking the pink pig...

Matt, does the book contain any coloured illustration besides that shown on the cover?  I know the expansion is barely a day old, but custom expansion makers like me probably already have their devious designs ready for the bits and bobs in the expansion :hehe: