A Fishermen expansion/variant.

[CKorfmann]

I'd like to propose an expansion/variant for the Fishermen called "Row, row, row your boat gently down the stream".  (Novelty, I recognize that this was initially the title of the Fishermen expansion, or close to it, but it fits perfectly with this idea so I hope you don't mind if I use it.  It can be changed if you like.)

Downstream (variant):
The Fishermen rules currently state that a river is complete when it is capped on both ends by any tile including two springs or two lakes.  This variant suggests that each river segment must have a spring on one end and a lake on the other in order to be considered complete. 

For rivers with branches in them, they must have either two springs or two lakes and one of the opposite.  If more branches are introduced, the cap tiles must be consistant with this "down stream" approach (the direction may be determined by a majority vote of players).  A section of river between two branches is still considered complete. 

In addition, any waterfall tiles must be placed so that they flow down stream since water can't fall up stream.  If a waterfall tile is placed before either end of the river, the apropriate tile must be placed to cap it so the waterfall runs down stream (spring at the head, lake at the end).  If the flow of a river is somehow changed anytime after the placement of a waterfall, then the waterfall is removed from the board and placed back in the draw pile.  Any followers on that tile are returned to their owners supply.

Fishing boat (expansion):
Each player receives in their supply one fishing boat of their color (a ship from Seafarers of Catan is best for this).  This fishing boat has a strength of two (like the big meeple from I&C). 

If they wish, a player may choose to place their fishing boat, instead of a fisherman, on a river tile.  On a subsequent turn, the player may choose, during the move the wood phase, to move their fishing boat one tile in any direction providing it stays on the river.  If the fishing boat moves onto a tile containing an unclaimed oyster (or other river symbol), it may remain there and claim the symbol for that player allowing him/her the benefits of the oyster (or other symbol) according to the normal rules. 

If playing with the Downstream variant, once the downstream direction is established, the fishing boat may move two tiles, instead of one, if moving in the downstream direction. 

The fishing boat may not pass a river junction containing rocks of any size nor may it pass through a city or an underground river tunnel.  The fishing boat may not pass a waterfall and must be two tiles away from a waterfall on the upstream side.  The fishing boat also may not occupy a spring tile.

The fishing boat may not be captured by the tower, but may be eaten by the dragon and save by the fairy. 

[Novelty]

I like the use of a ship as a big follower and wagon for rivers.  However, under Fishermen rules, a river is complete from a branch/junction to either of lake/spring/junction/abbey.  The branch rule that you are proposing reads a bit weird to me.

I would suggest making the movement of the boat the same as the wagon, i.e. it can only move after it scores.  Otherwise, there'd be way too much complexity to remember and play.

[CKorfmann]

The branch rule that you are proposing reads a bit weird to me.

Perhaps I can explain a little better.  It doesn't quite feel right to me that a river can begin and end with a lake tile.  My point here is to give it the appearance of the original River expansions.  It begins with a spring and ends with a lake, regardless of how many branches it has.  It's therefore true that one river could have several complete (scoring) segments between juctions, etc., as all the other rules of Fishermen still apply.  For me, I just like the sense of the river flowing in one direction.  That's why I just made it a variant.  That's how I would probably play it.  Is that any less wierd?

I would suggest making the movement of the boat the same as the wagon, i.e. it can only move after it scores.

My intention was to make the ship movement simple.  You can move the ship one tile instead of moving wood.  The idea is to claim an oyster that may have previously been unclaimed.  However, making it the wagon of the river makes a lot of sense too.  I hadn't thought of that before, strangely enough, and if it worked the same as the wagon it would be less to remember.  I agree. 

[Novelty]

Perhaps I can explain a little better.  It doesn't quite feel right to me that a river can begin and end with a lake tile.

Let's see.  The Jordan River starts at the Sea of Galilee (a lake) and ends in the Dead Sea (also a lake).  Even in the States, the Detroit river connects Lake St. Clair to Lake Erie.  There are probably numerous other examples, and others (source to branch, lake to branch, branch to branch, etc.) I can quote from the real world (with the exception of a river ending at the abbey wall!).  However, you may choose to play differently from the rules if you wish, but beware that you'll have a lot more "holes" in your "map".

The idea is to claim an oyster that may have previously been unclaimed.

Erm... A player cannot claim an oyster by moving a meeple onto it.  The oyster icon only works when the tile with it is played.  I suppose you can give extra points for "claiming the oyster", but that was not the original intention of the icon.  (The same thing applies to Joff's Chivalry icon on the river segments - its effect is only active when the tile with it is played.)

If you are talking about the fishermen guild icon, again, that icon is like the pennant in cities, you don't need a meeple on that tile to claim the bonus points from that icon, as long as there is the icon in your river segment, you get the points.  Ditto with the Swam or the Fish trade goods.

[CKorfmann]

Point taken.  I stand corrected.  As for movement, I thought establishing the direction of flow in the river would help me with my idea about moving the boat.  However, since I think you're also correct that it would be easier to make the fishing boat "the wagon of the river", that's not necessary either. 

As for the oyster icon, that's what I was referring to, not the others.  I see your point here as well.  I thought perhaps we could use it to claim a previously unclaimed oyster, but again, this is not necessary.

I guess the question is now, should the fishing boat count both as a "wagon" and as a large meeple (strength of 2), or just one of those?

[CKorfmann]

I guess I might still have a reality issue with a river with springs on both ends.  I guess it's just a matter of suspension of disbelief.

[Novelty]

OK, I've done the rules for the Fishing Boat expansion.  It now has its own separate thread.

Do feel free to post the Downstream variant on the appropriate forum.

[CKorfmann]

Cool.  It looks good.  Thanks!