Big Box 2 (RGG) rules issue - Mayor & Wagon count as TWO followers....

[Skull One]

Ok straight from the Big Box 2 rules under the "The Count of Carcassonne" section.  These rules are not online at present from RGG.

This is in reference to moving followers from the City to a scoring feature.  They have a "special cases" section.

Abbey & Mayor: a player may also move his mayor (castle only) and his wagon (castle, blacksmith, or cathedral only) into Carcassonne.  If they are used when scoring, each counts as two followers.

Granted I only started playing this last year, but since when did the Mayor become a fixed count and when did the wagon count as two followers?

And yes I did check CAR pdf for a FAQ, nothing.  The original rules for the Count don't have anything since it came out before Abbey & Mayor.  And of course Big Box one doesn't have Abbey & Mayor in it, so no precedent there either.

THOUGHTS?


And yes I now plan to read the Big Box 2 rules from cover to cover and see what else they changed.

[metoth]

I had always assumed that the mayor would count as how ever many pennants there are in the feature you've moved him out onto to score points. 

The wagon counting as two seems completely random to me.  I always think of the wagon as somehow lesser than a regular meeple. 

[hester]

Abbey & Mayor: a player may also move his mayor (castle only) and his wagon (castle, blacksmith, or cathedral only) into Carcassonne.  If they are used when scoring, each counts as two followers.

That makes no sense to me at all! Everything I've ever read points to the same understanding as what metoth said. I'm still waiting for HiG to make the BigBix2 rules available for download; hopefully they'll be more enlightening...

[Scott]

This is very bizarre, and even if it's an RGG-only thing, the world of Carc just became a more confusing place.

[rbilabronze]

Rules are now posted at RGG: http://www.riograndegames.com/uploads/Game/Game_304_gameRules.pdf.  Page 14 contains the new bizarre rule about mayors and wagons counting as 2 followers if used in scoring. 

[Tobias]

Hmm, strange indeed. But I am not sure how big an impact it will have on game play since you have to place them into Carcassonne first and then move them out to score a feature. Time will tell.

I also notice that the expression "'move' wood"[sic!] is now an official expression, which is nice since it is used so much by fans.

[Novelty]

The rules look like a badly translated version from German.  I wonder what does the original German rules say.  Does anyone have a copy that could share?

[hester]

It is not just a bad translation, it is a badly executed conglomerate of previous HiG and RGG rules. For example, the document tries to use 3rd edition scoring rules for farms, but there are at least two instances where they forgot to remove/change the 1st edition rules accordingly. Even worse is the dragon description: On page 9, the RGG rule remains that dragon movement occurs after scoring. On page 15 however, in the rule overview, dragon movement clearly comes before scoring (as always employed by HiG). People whose first Carcassonne experience comes with this box will be left completely baffled and helpless by these rules!

Unfortunately HiG still haven't posted the BigBox2 rules on their website.

[metoth]

Rules are now posted at RGG: http://www.riograndegames.com/uploads/Game/Game_304_gameRules.pdf.  Page 14 contains the new bizarre rule about mayors and wagons counting as 2 followers if used in scoring. 

Hmmm...I'm not liking it.  I can maybe buy that the mayor would count as two if you are moving it out of Carcassonne to score a feature, but two for the wagon as well?  That just seems completely out of nowhere to me.  I think we'll just continue playing the way we had been...

[Skull One]

After reading the new rules, I would throw them out and wait for someone with more brains to do a translation or just apply CAR to it and be done.

I am now betting they did a simple cut and paste from the big meeple rule that states "counts as two followers".  Someone was just to lazy to properly translate the original german rules and figured "What the hell? Close enough".

[hester]

I am now betting they did a simple cut and paste from the big meeple rule that states "counts as two followers".  Someone was just to lazy to properly translate the original german rules and figured "What the hell? Close enough".

That thought occurred to me as well. It definitely wasn't proofread, there are too many misspellings and leftover bits of German.

[michael]

Hi, I've just been reading this thread and I thought I'd follow it up.  Got the RGG rules pdf (thanks rbilabronze) and then went to the HiG website to see what they said in German.  At this webpage http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/79.0.html they give a link to the German rules in PDF format.
I know a bit of German; the HiG rules are brief and do not mention anything beyond the second expansion; I could find nothing to suggest what is written in the RGG rules.
As I mentioned before, I know ONLY a LITTLE German and I would translate the HiG rules thus:
(Specifics) further rules in relation to the expansions:
First expansion: The large follower may also be placed in Carcassonne.  When he is placed for scoring, he scores as usual as two followers.
Second expansion - merchants and builders: when a player with a builder gets a double-move and fulfills the required conditions at each part-move, he can place a follower in Carcassonne at both part-moves.

I plan to write to HiG to seek clarification on the remaining expansions.  I'll post more when and if I get a reply from HiG.

[Gantry]

Thanks for adding to this micheal.  I think everyone is anxious for this oddity to get cleared up.