Hog Roast

[Joff]

Over recent weeks I have been pondering an expansion that allows the pig to be played within the city walls. Keeping with the Medieval theme, I thought about a medieval banquet, commonly termed these days as a 'hog roast'. This would also be the 'pipeline' expansion for The Medieval Expansion.

I have been discussing this with Novelty (thinking about a joint expansion). I'll let Novelty post his ideas, but for now I will give a working outline for you to digest and comment on.

I have updated the scoring from my original (as per Novelty's suggestion) but here it is... in a very draft form:

Hog Roast

[Novelty]

My first suggestion was that the total number of hog roast be increased to one per player.

I had suggested that the hog should be brought in from outside the city (i.e. hunted down).  I suggested that when a road with a builder is completed, and the road connects to the gates of an incomplete city, then a player may play the hog roast into the city.  Joff didn't like this idea because it requires playing with the builder.  I think the idea can still work if the builder requirement is removed.

The other alternative would be to bring in the hog roast from the farms, but I couldn't think of anything that would fit.  One alternative would be when a barn is played and it removes farmers, one of those removed farmers can choose to play a hog roast into any city or a city connected to the farm or something.  This will definately require a 1 hog roast per player not to mention the use of Abbey and Mayor which Joff will probably not want.

I envisage that the hog roast will behave different from the builder and pig non-followers, i.e. it may be placed in a city without a follower, and does not get removed if all the followers from the city are removed.  It only gets removed after the city is completed and scored.  I have no idea whether it should be vulnerable to the dragon or the tower or the princess, but I say it should be for all 3 of them.  That's my thoughts so far.

Edit: Just for curiosity, Joff's original idea for scoring was:

Once a city containing the hog roast is complete the player holding the majority within that city scores 2 bonus points per follower occupying any other cities.

[Joff]

My first suggestion was that the total number of hog roast be increased to one per player.

This is not a problem, but would require up to 6 pigs in each player's colour. Or, using the pig itself as the hog roast rather than in farms (this would definately require T&B)

I had envisioned 1 white pig that could be moved by all players (similar to the Fairy). At the time of completing a city containing the hog roast the majority occupier would score some sort of bonus.

I like the way Novelty thought about increasing just the pennants score, and while the hog roast was in the city the Mayor would have a strength of +1.

[Novelty]

This is not a problem, but would require up to 6 pigs in each player's colour. Or, using the pig itself as the hog roast rather than in farms (this would definately require T&B)

No, it would require 6 white pigs.  It would be a bad idea to have either 6 pigs of each colour or to reuse the existing available pig for this purpose.  The reason it would require 6 white pigs is that the white pigs will be different from the coloured pigs, as the white pigs will give the bonus to whoever has the majority in the city and to all mayors.  Coloured pigs currently only gives the owner the pig bonus.

I had envisioned 1 white pig that could be moved by all players (similar to the Fairy). At the time of completing a city containing the hog roast the majority occupier would score some sort of bonus.

That is a good idea in theory, but it seems a bit messy in play and in ideal.  Why would anyone want to move a hog roast (i.e. food) from city to city?  I can't think up an idea why this should be so.  And messy in play because there needs to be a mechanism for moving it and again, I'm drawing blanks on that too.  But that's just me, maybe someone can explain why a hog roast needs to be moved from city to city... and how that would translate into the game mechanism/actions.

I like the way Novelty thought about increasing just the pennants score, and while the hog roast was in the city the Mayor would have a strength of +1.

  Thanks.  Remember, the white pig gives this bonus to all players, not just the player who placed it there, so it should hopefully encourage a lot more strategy.  Likewise, all mayors in that city will get the +1 bonus.  It would hopefully, make a city suddenly worth fighting over.

[Joff]

No, it would require 6 white pigs.  It would be a bad idea to have either 6 pigs of each colour or to reuse the existing available pig for this purpose.  The reason it would require 6 white pigs is that the white pigs will be different from the coloured pigs, as the white pigs will give the bonus to whoever has the majority in the city and to all mayors.  Coloured pigs currently only gives the owner the pig bonus.

Why 6 white pigs? That is rather a lot going around. Not worth fighting for the city if i can go to another city with a pig in!

That is a good idea in theory, but it seems a bit messy in play and in ideal.  Why would anyone want to move a hog roast (i.e. food) from city to city?  I can't think up an idea why this should be so.  And messy in play because there needs to be a mechanism for moving it and again, I'm drawing blanks on that too.  But that's just me, maybe someone can explain why a hog roast needs to be moved from city to city... and how that would translate into the game mechanism/actions.

The city that the hog roast ends up in is simply the city that is having a feast. I don't think it needs to be explained why the hog roast is moved. Why build a road that goes in a circle? One simple mechanism for moving the pig is simply: instead of moving the wood, a player may move the hog roast. It works for the fairy... why not the pig? The fairy does not feel messy in play. My original proposal was that you can move the pig when a city is extended, but not completed. It could be moved to any incomplete city.

Thanks.  Remember, the white pig gives this bonus to all players, not just the player who placed it there, so it should hopefully encourage a lot more strategy.  Likewise, all mayors in that city will get the +1 bonus.  It would hopefully, make a city suddenly worth fighting over.

It would need even more strategy with 1 pig. The bonus given to the mayor is a good one, considering that the mayor is worthless in cities with no pennants. This is one thing we can agree on

[Novelty]

I agree that 6 pigs is too much.  But I think 1 is too few.  Maybe there needs to be 1 for every 2 players or something... then you can have multiple celebrations and you don't have to move the pig

[Joff]

I have been talking to a friend of mine at work. He has an aunt, who not only lives near Carcassonne, but gives guided tours of the city!!!

He told me about a legend that circulates among the people regarding a pig. He said that pigs are for sale everywhere. Not literal pigs, but souvenir pigs. The region is dedicated to pigs because of this legend. I done a quick Google search and found a brief mention of the legend. Here it is:

"In 760, Pippin the Younger, king of the Franks and father of Charlemagne, had recaptured most of Southern France from the Saracens. But the impregnable fortress of Carcassonne resisted. According to legend, a Saracen princess named Carcas devised a ruse to save the city. After a long siege, she used the last sacks of grain to fatten up a pig, and then threw it over the ramparts. Seeing such a well-fed pig, the assailants gave up, thinking the city had enough food not to surrender for a long time. Carcas rang the bells to celebrate, and the city was named Carcas sonne (Carcas rings).

Different versions of this story are told, some featuring Pippin, some Charlemagne. A good story, but probably a myth."

I know the century is different to the one the game is set in, but the idea is called Hog Roast, can we do something that honours this legend?

We also have siege tiles which might be able to be utilised in re-telling this myth. It's a great story, set in the city of Carc... what can we do with it?

[Scott]

I think Matt sort of covered it with his throwing pigs expansion.

[Joff]

I am not wanting the pigs to be thrown...

[Novelty]

Well, we could "place a wheat counter under the pig" to represent feeding the pig, but that would mean one has to play with the T&B expansion...

Any city with a fed pig is immune to and is not affected by sieges and cathars?

[Scott]

If you're trying to achieve immunity from siege, how about making it simple and allowing the pig to be played on cities?

[Joff]

I like the idea of coupling this with the Siege tiles (which are now readily available). It would also work with Cathars. The playing of the Hog to a city cancels out any Siege taking place while the Hog remains within the walls.

[Novelty]

I like the idea of coupling this with the Siege tiles (which are now readily available). It would also work with Cathars. The playing of the Hog to a city cancels out any Siege taking place while the Hog remains within the walls.

I think this should be more a "side effect".  I think the hog roast should also do something else so as not to be useless when not playing with Siege/Cathars.

[CKorfmann]

Do you have updated rules for this?

[Novelty]

If you check the Fan-made Expansions in development post, you'll probably see that it is in archived, which means that no work has been done on it for 3 months.  Joff and I are putting this on hold for the time being while working on other projects.  Some day, when we get the inspiration, we may return to this to flesh it out more.

There are 2 more other threads that would list what's happening here:
Completed Fan-made Expansions for this month which is updated regularly and cleared at the beginning of the month (so it will be blank on April's Fools!)
Completed Carcassonne Central Expansions (monthly) which is a list of expansions that you'll find on the Public Downloads page and is updated monthly.