Carcassonne Central expansion: reboot!

[canada steve]

Gents not sure but isnt there a copyright and royalties issue here. I mean who actually owns the rights to the "Carcassonne" brand. Im not sure and you would want to check this but I think that the owner has to be paid royalties for every unit sold, so you would need ot factor that into your expenses. Also you would need to get specific permission from the copyright holder to produce anything that would be sold, even if you arent out to make a profit. Loook at Paul McCartney he fleeces everyone each tiome a Beatles number is used.

I may be wrong on these things but it is worth checking first.

[Gantry]

Gantry,

Thanks for your interest. Any expansion must be approved by Hans im Glück. Also, I need to
know how you would expect it to be distributed. If, like the GQ, it is just 12 tiles, that does make it easy - in their case, I paid for the tiles, they managed the insertion in the mag.

Jay M Tummelson

[Novelty]

Steve, that's why we are going through Jay/RGG.  And according to the reply he sent to Gantry, it has to be approved by HiG.  I guess the next step is to ask how do we get approval from HiG - do we go through Jay/RGG?  Also we need to figure out how we are going to distribute it and negotiate with Jay to see if he is willing to pay for the tiles again.

[Gantry]

I'm leaving for my holidays this weekend and have a lot to wrap up before then, so I won't get a chance to do any more CC stuff until I return on the 27th. So if you want, come up with something here and I'll send it when I return (I assume I'll continue to be Jay's single point of contact on this).

[Novelty]

Gantry, do you have any preference for what to do regarding distribution and sales?  But before we even do that do we need to ask Jay if he's willing to pay for the tiles again?  And the "how" of getting approval from HiG still remains... that is now the critical issue IMO...

[canada steve]

Novelty as I said you need to get the permission of the copyright holder, HiG not Jay. Jay has permission from HiG to produce Carc under license and must pay for the privelage, after all HiG is a business and must make a profit. So you need to consider that HiG will say yes but may want to take some royalities from whatever you charge. I might be wrong and he could want nothing which would be sweeeet.

[Novelty]

Steve, Jay/RGG has been doing it for years for all the RGG stuff.  We just need to find out from him if he will be willing to do it for us (just like what he did for GQ11).  As for royalties, if we don't charge anything with the exception of postage, there might not be an issue of royalties.  We shall have to see once Gantry sorts that out with HiG.

[Scott]

As I mentioned before, I really don't like Frederic's blocked road with bushes tiles. I don't feel it adds anything new to the game that we didn't already have with junctions.

I do like the four-way roundabout, and I think that has enough mass appeal to include in a real expansion.

I think it would be good to have a mixture of tiles with new rules and tiles that don't require rules.

I think one or two river tiles with new configurations might be nice. Maybe the best two from the "Rivers 3" set that Novelty made?

I like the idea of including some of the 1-tile expansions that Joff has been cranking out recently.

As can be expected, part of me would like to see a gold mine or two, but I'm not sure how wise that is. I think it would be a bit of a waste to have only two gold mines. Probably better to leave them out and hope for another opportunity to release more tiles. (Maybe an expansion with 6 gold mines and 6 something else.)

Regarding distribution/sales, best would be to go through RGG and the game stores. That would make it easier for Jay to get reimbursed plus his portion of the profit, and he can forward our portion of the profit to Gantry. We could also have a few copies of the expansion sent to Gantry to sell to CarcCentral members. (Free copies for contributors?) I live close enough to Gantry that I could help with stuff.

[Novelty]

Well, we know what *we* would like, but the question is, what does RGG perfer?  The important issues at the moment that we (Gantry) probably need to question Jay on are:

1. How do we get approval from HiG for the expansion?  Can we go through RGG?
2. Does Jay have any preference for distribution?

[I originally thought that a Carcassonne Central expansion, would be an expansion sold/distributed exclusively by CC/Gantry, just like the mini expansion was exclusive to GQ, and Cathars to Spielbox.   That however, would depend on what conditions Jay/RGG and HiG would impose.

Also, I think preorders, where you have to pay in advance, may probably secure some of the costs for the expansion.  If Jay/RGG is willing to pay for the balance or something, that would also go a long way.]

[Gantry]

I'm back now!  Will digest this and request some more info from Jay on this.

[Joff]

One addition that might be useful to a new ‘GQ11’ type CC expansion is a Big-Box I&C ‘crcr’ tile, to replace the RGG I&C ‘crcr’ tile. The Big-Box I&C
'crcr' tile clearly splits the road in two.

[Gantry]

Okay, I almost forgot about this! Emailed today:

Hi Jay,

We (the Carc Central authors) have a few questions for you in regards to a Carc Central expansion:

1. How do we get approval from HiG, ie do they require a lengthy detailed business plan, a short elevator pitch, or a rough proposal? We're looking for a typical requirement that you think they may be after.
2. Is it possible to go through you to get approval from HiG?
3. Does HiG correspond in English or do we need to get any correspondence translated?
4. Do you have a contact name at HiG?
5. Like GQ where you paid for the tiles, would you consider doing so again if we have a good proposal for a Carcassonne Central expansion?
6. What is a typical expected investment in such an endeavor?
7. While there are a number of routes for distribution, our group has suggested through RGG, game stores and our web site.  Clearly your opinion weighs more heavily in this area than ours as you have the greatest experience. What is your suggestion for this?

As well, can I suggest that this thread be limited to the correspondence around the business end of the project, and a new thread be started for the mechanics of the expansion?

Here's hoping for a good response from Jay!

[Gantry]

Answers bolded (is that really a verb?) for emphasis...

Gantry,

We (the Carc Central authors) have a few questions for you in regards to a Carc Central expansion:

1. How do we get approval from HiG, ie do they require a lengthy detailed business plan, a short elevator pitch, or a rough proposal? We're looking for a typical requirement that you think they may be after.

You would need to send them your suggestion in prototype form. They would evaluate it and
decide what to do. I have no idea what the chances are they are interested in an outside expansion.

2. Is it possible to go through you to get approval from HiG?

You can send it to me and I can take it to them - they still get to decide.

3. Does HiG correspond in English or do we need to get any correspondence translated?

They will respond in English.

4. Do you have a contact name at HiG?

Dirk - dirk.geilenkeuser@hans-im-glueck.de

5. Like GQ where you paid for the tiles, would you consider doing so again if we have a good proposal for a Carcassonne Central expansion?

Yes.

6. What is a typical expected investment in such an endeavor?

I do not understand the question, sorry.

7. While there are a number of routes for distribution, our group has suggested through RGG, game stores and our web site.  Clearly your opinion weighs more heavily in this area than ours as you have the greatest experience. What is your suggestion for this?

If the expansion is produced, it would be distributed by RGG. You, of course, could act as a retailer for it.

Thanks

Jay

[Joff]

Very interesting...

I suppose we must now decide exactly what we are going to propose to HiG and whether we go through Jay or straight to HiG.

[Gantry]

Personally, I recommend going through Jay.  It's like having your pal Donald Trump in your corner while asking for a mortgage.

Did everyone here understand question #6? If not, I would expect some sort of financial outlay, whether it be to share the pre-sales production costs, advertising, what have you.  I would be totally shocked if it cost us nothing to get into other than just a good expansion.

I suppose I could run the retail sales portion, unless someone else on the team has the capacity & experience?