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Author Topic: Expansion #7 Announced  (Read 116552 times)
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Tobias
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« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2008, 10:21:18 am »

I expect most people who buy Catapult will quickly discover that the Catapult will be good for flinging more dangerous projectiles, like meeples. The catapult will be useful for tossing pigs, attacking cities and towers, or a way of randomizing the magic portal from P&D.

No. People do not want to fling stuff while they play C, they want to lay tiles and get points. They want to be tactical with the tiles they draw - they do not want to have a good aim or good reflexes.
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Scott
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« Reply #46 on: October 04, 2008, 11:45:35 am »

As someone with bad aim, I can appreciate that. Grin
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Wishmaster
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« Reply #47 on: October 04, 2008, 05:35:23 pm »

I'm with most people here, especially Tobias and his last comment which summed it all up for me. If I wanted to fling things around I'd go out and buy some toy soldiers and a catupult. Carcassonne was (is?) a gentle tile laying strategic game, not a 9 year olds toy set - What are they thinking!! Is this really a Wrede expansion or has the company recently aquired a new CEO? It's all very against the grain and odd.

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skipboris
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« Reply #48 on: October 04, 2008, 07:43:35 pm »

I expect most people who buy Catapult will quickly discover that the Catapult will be good for flinging more dangerous projectiles, like meeples. The catapult will be useful for tossing pigs, attacking cities and towers, or a way of randomizing the magic portal from P&D.

Hard to know what to do about the fair tiles without seeing them. Are they surrounded by farm, or city? If farm, they could give a small economic bonus to farmers (1 or 2 points per fair); circus folk need a lot of food. If city, they could give a happiness bonus (1 point per fair).

I think they will be like tower tiles; ordinary but with an icon.  I think the bolded idea above should be explored. 

Rough draft
you pull a fair tile and you may (choose one, you must declare what type of attack you are doing):
1) toss pig - If you have a pig you may toss it using catapult.  It will randomly land and support whichever farmer owns the farm.  If it lands anywhere but on grass, you lose the pio
2) attack tower - load any wood piece you have left (barn heh).  Launch, any tower that is touched is destroyed, along with the "ammo".  You may use tower pieces as ammo as well.  Ammo and any struck tower are removed from play forever.
3) launch follower - wherever it lands, it stays.  If touching multiple features it is attracted in the following order: roads, cloisters, city, farms.  For example, it can only be in a farm if it's touching absolutely nothing else, and so on.  If it lands on no tile it's lost forever!  Magic portal must now be used this way.
4) attack tile - using one of your round catapult tokens (target or catch), fire.  Whatever tile it lands on is removed from play, with the exception of Carcassonne and the river.  If you hit either of these types of tile, or miss completely, you lose your token.  Since you only have 2 tokens (if I read correctly) you only can do this twice.  The struck tile will then be immediately replayed by the shooting player.  The token should be left on the tile and cover up any trade goods. 

This is just a start.  Comments are needed.  Please build on or subtract from this idea.  There still is no use for the tile (seduction & knock out) shape tokens, or the measuring board.

Once we get the launcher we will see just how random it really is.  I'm guessing there will need to be a rule that says you need to be at least 5 inches from all tiles.  Otherwise, one could do a tiny shot which is meant to fall off the side onto a tile.
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Novelty
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« Reply #49 on: October 04, 2008, 11:10:09 pm »

skipboris, nice suggestion, but I think you are missing the point.  Carcassonne is a strategy game of tile-laying, and not about skill - i.e. tossing things and catching things.  I think a large portion of this forum thinks the skill part of the expansion to be out of character and would prefer to change it to something of strategy.   How that could be done, I have no idea.
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Joff
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« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2008, 05:48:03 am »

I believe the 'icon' will be similar to that on the Traders and Builders expansion (the Trade goods icons: Wine, Cloth, Grain) and I think the icon is indeed shown in the rules (similar to the 'inn on a lake' icon, which is a better example that T&B icons Wink)


Will this icon appear inside city walls? Who knows, but I am inclined to think that it will only be on roads, as per 'inn on a lake'.
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Scott
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« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2008, 09:15:40 am »

I can see a road running towards it from the top, and possibly also on the bottom. I suspect it's not just an icon, but a landscape feature.
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skipboris
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« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2008, 10:40:20 am »

I was thinking of the catapult strictly as a randomizer, like dice.  If you can skillfully shoot it, then yea I see the point. 

New suggestion: when firing you must use full power.
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Gantry
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« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2008, 04:44:43 pm »

  Carcassonne is a strategy game of tile-laying, and not about skill - i.e. tossing things and catching things. 

QFT
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« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2008, 05:24:10 am »

I don't think I will be buying this expansion.  Unless my kids, when they're older, insist on it...
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Cappy
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« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2008, 04:37:36 pm »

First off, I haven't read completely through this thread -- I started it then had to go elsewhere, which gave me time to think about the premise. I decided to go ahead and post my thoughts before reading everything in the hopes of interjecting something new (brainstorming and all that). My apologies if I parallel, contradict, or otherwise derail what you all have generated the past few days.

I love the idea of an "official" what-Catapult-should-have-been variant. I've tried to keep in mind the summary that Carcassonne is a light tile-laying game and not a game of dexterity. So here are my rough thoughts:

The Tiles: Fairs attract people. When a fair tile is played, meeple will migrate to it ala Wagons. From how far and how many? I would like to allow stacking meeples on this tile, it gives it a unique flavor. Are the meeples stuck here for the game? You've robbed other features of their meeples, are the losing players somehow compensated? That is, is the tile an aggressive point-robber or should it be painted as a positive, happy play option.

The Tokens: I see these as bonus play tiles, like the Gold Nugget from H&G or Kevin Graham's variant. At what point in the game they come into play is undecided - specific scoring points? When a fair tile is played? Seduction - trade positions with another player's meeple. Knock Out - reclaim a "stuck" meeple, like farmers or incomplete knights. Target & Catch - no idea.

The Catapult: using this element as something other than a dexterity piece is the biggest challenge. The only real option I see is to use it as a randomizer. Perhaps meeples trapped on the fair tile can escape only when they "ride the catapult" (no idea what that means. heh).

Then on my morning commute, the above points coelesced into something like this:

When a fair tile is played, it attracts meeples and scores. Then the bonus tile round is played out, which goes something like this:

Beginning with the player who has the lowest score (I like to give the underdog a bone every now and then), each player selects one of their tokens to play this round. In clockwise order, each player choses one, but they can not repeat what another has chosen. (I know that will easily leave some players out, but deal with it. They will get their chance soon enough.) Players may always chose to pass in a catapult round.

The selected tokens are stacked on the catapult, all together, and flung. The lowest score player gets to use his bonus token, that's a given. The token which lands closest to that player's token (this is where the measuring bar comes in) also gets to use his. The other players reclaim their tokens for later catapult rounds. Used tokens are out of play for the duration of the game.

That's my very rough first pass. Now that I've muddied the waters, off I go to see what else has developed. Smiley
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Scott
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« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2008, 06:13:14 pm »

I'm a little fuzzy on how the fair tile scores. Huh? What is being scored? How are the points calculated?

I like the idea of using the catapult as a randomizer. I wonder if the tokens are the same on each side, or if they have a heads/tails aspect to them...
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Cappy
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« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2008, 09:07:19 pm »

That's because I'm fuzzy on scoring the fair tile and didn't actually post any instructions on that. Haven't hammered that part out yet... The above is by no means a complete variant, just the direction my ideas were going.
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Novelty
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« Reply #58 on: October 09, 2008, 11:51:21 pm »

I think we should post our suggestions in a separate thread (or threads) in the variants forum so as not to clog up this thread with suggestions.
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Novelty
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« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2008, 06:45:15 am »

I just want to post that Amazon.de has this item for sale now.

http://www.amazon.de/Schmidt-Spiele-48188-Carcassonne-Erweiterung/dp/B001CFDTOG

My apologies if this is construed as spam...
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