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Author Topic: Latest FAQ from HiG  (Read 16788 times)
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mjharper
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« on: January 28, 2008, 09:53:09 am »

Quote from: Question 1)
With the new three-way tile, is the length of the road the longest distance between two ends, or the total number of tiles in the road? (For example, when deciding who gets the Robber Baron.)
Answer: Every tile which is part of the road counts (similarly to the Castle). The road has three ends which have to be closed, but the result is that it’s likely to be bigger.

Quote from: Question 2)
If I have an Abbey left and I pick the very last tile up and play it to an feature where I have a Builder, then is the game over because the last tile (apart from Abbeys) has been played?  Or am I allowed to play my Abbey on my extra turn from the Builder?
Answer: The abbey may still be played. The builder-turn is not an extra turn, but a part of the regular turn (the double-turn). Both parts of the double-turn are identical, although the fairy (3rd expansion), for example, only gives bonus points at the start of the player’s turn, and a figure can  also only be moved to Carcassonne (Count) once.

Quote from: Question 3)
If the player on my right plays the last tile has the game finished?  Or, if I have an Abbey left, can I say, "No I want my turn.  I choose not to take a tile, but to play my Abbey"?
Answer: Strictly speaking, all abbeys can be played. As such, players who don’t have an abbey left can be passed by… not nice.
But the abbey is definitely a land tile, and according to the basic rules the game is over when all land tiles have been played. I’m not keen on that, but we did write it…
Wait! I’ve just spoken with the boss, and he also thinks it isn’t very nice, and not in the spirit of the game.
So we agreed on a new definition: “The game is over when the last upturned land tile has been played.”
If a player hasn’t played their abbey by the time that the last ‘regular’ land tile is played, it’s tough luck.

Quote from: Question 4)
What is the definition of "connected" for the Wagon?  If two city walls are touching (maybe even only at a point), can I drive my Wagon from one to another?
Answer: ‘Connected’ means roads which lead to crossings and roads which head directly ‘into’ a city or a cloister. Two cities never connect to each other (in the current land tiles). So the wagon has to use the roads to move—it’s a wagon, after all.

Quote from: Question 5)
Can you deploy a wagon to a city, score it, and then move the wagon to another feature, all in one turn? Or can you only move the wagon instead of deploying a normal follower?
Answer: That isn’t a contradiction, is it?
The wagon can be deployed instead of a normal follower. If the city is immediately completed, then it’s scored (wagon or ‘normal’ follower). After scoring, the wagon can be moved. All of that is possible in a single turn.

Quote from: Question 6)
Blue has a mayor in a city with no pennants. Does the city count as occupied? And if so, when the city is scored, will blue score points?
Answer: The city is occupied. The mayor has no ‘strength’, so he counts as if there is no follower, and scores no points.

Quote from: Question 7)
If a player completes a feature with an Abbey tile and their builder is on the feature, does the feature get 'extended" by the Abbey, and if so does the player get another tile?
Answer: No, the abbey is a separate feature.

Quote from: Question 8 )
If cities with trade goods are completed by placement of an Abbey tile, are the goods tokens awarded as usual to the player placing the Abbey tile?
Answer: Yes, as the player completed the city.

Quote from: Question 9)
If an Abbey tile completes a road/city that is unoccupied can the player use a follower from their hand to complete and score that feature in that turn - as they could with placement of a road or city tile?
Answer: No, the follower can only be deployed to the tile just placed, so only to the abbey.

Quote from: Question 10)
Can the wagon move to an incomplete, empty, Abbey when the road/city it is on is completed? That is: is the road/city "adjacent" to the Abbey even though the Abbey tile has no city/road segment?
Answer: No. Just like in the first question, connections are made via roads.

Quote from: Question 11)
Can I place a builder in a city in which the only other follower is a wagon?
Answer: Yes. A little definition may help: we distinguished between ‘followers’ and ‘special figures’ in the Big Box.
Followers are deployed according to the normal rules and score the normal points. At the moment, that’s the small and big followers, the mayor, and the wagon.
Special figures are deployed differently and have a variable or even no score. At the moment, that’s the builder, the pig, and the barn.

Quote from: Question 12)
If I place a barn on a farm on which another player has farmers, causing him/her to score while I score nothing, can I move a follower to the City of Carcassonne? (While there is no immediate score to me now, the barn is certain to score at the end of the game).
Answer: Yes, that’s allowed. Only immediately scored points matter.
A similar question arises with regard to trade goods, which may lead to points at the end of the game.

Quote from: Question 13)
Does the placing of a barn, and the subsequent scoring of the farm, count as an opportunity to REMOVE a meeple from the City of Carcassonne? The rules currently say that a meeple may only be removed to a farm "at the end of the game", but that was created before A&M and the barn.
Answer: Yes: now that farms cannot only be scored at the end of the game, followers from the market can be moved to farms earlier in the game. That occurs immediately after the placement of the barn, and before the farmers are scored.

Quote from: Question 14)
If a player completes a city that contains resources, but scores no points for the city, does the acquisition of resources count as (potential) scoring and forbid the player moving a meeple to the City of Carcassonne? What if the resources acquired secure a monopoly and therefore make later scoring certain?
Answer: As mentioned above, only immediately scored points matter.

Quote from: Question 15)
Can I place a follower on a tower foundation to prevent a tower being built?
Answer: No. Only tower blocks can be placed on tower foundations. The tower can only be blocked when it already exists.

Quote from: Question 16)
If your city is besieged with a tile from the Cathars expansion, and there is no Abbey or Cloister adjoining, can the mayor or wagon escape? [oops, mistranslation there… meant to be ‘is an Abbey etc’- Matt]
Answer: No, escape is only possible in connection with a cloister or abbey. If a besieged city is completed, it is scored and the followers are returned to the play as usual (the wagon can naturally be moved as well).

Quote from: Question 17)
If you have one knight in a besieged city, and another knight in another besieged city, and both besieged cities are adjacent to cloisters, can both knights escape at the end of your turn, or can you only choose to evacuate one per turn?
Answer: I haven’t got the rules in front of me, but I seem to remember that only one knight can escape per turn. It’s irrelevant whether the followers are in the same city or different cities.

Quote from: Question 18)
Can a knight in a besieged city from the Cathars escape via a shrine, or only via a cloister?
Answer: The shrines are, for the most part, identical to cloisters. That goes for escape as well.

Quote from: Question 19)
The rules say that you may not place a shrine in such a way that it neighbours several cloisters, and vice versa. But can I place a shrine in such a way that it forces a cloister neighbour several shrines? What effect does that have?
Answer: It leads to enormous problems when multiple cloisters and shrines neighbour each other. I also don’t know how a player can be forced to place a tile in a particular place.

Quote from: Question 20)
If the fairy is on the same tile as the losing heretic or monk in a challenge, does the player still score the bonus 3 points?
Answer: When a challenge is resolved (that is, when someone has won), both followers are returned to the player, so no-one is stood next to the fairy.

Quote from: Question 21)
Can a shrine challenge an abbey, and vice versa?
Answer: Yes, because the abbey is also a cloister.

Quote from: Question 22)
Do the rules that restrict the placement of cloisters next to already placed shrines also restrict the placement of Abbeys?
Answer: Yes.

Quote from: Question 23)
If you combine Count, King and Consorts with The River II, you will now have two forks. Obviously one of those gets placed immediately, but should the other one be mixed in with the rest of the river tiles, or put to one side?
Answer: In fact, that means using The River II twice. We didn’t plan that, and I think that it will lead to problems with placement. Whoever wants to do it should go ahead, but there’s no rules for it. Sorry!

Quote from: Question 24)
What if the tile placed completes both the shrine and the cloister—who scores?
Answer: Then no-one completed the building first, and both receive the points.

Quote from: Question 25)
Does it ever make a difference if I have a big meeple in a cloister or the shrine?
Answer: It can make a difference in combination with the Count, but he never leads to more points, or anything like that.

Quote from: Question 26)
Can I move followers from the City of Carcassonne (from the cathedral?) into a shrine during scoring?
Answer: Yes, Shrines and cloisters are treated in the same way.

Quote from: Question 27)
Imagine I have an unoccupied cloister next to an occupied shrine. I place a tile with a magic portal which completes both buildings, and choose to use the magic portal to deploy a monk to the cloister. Does this declare a challenge, if so, and who wins?
Answer: Then it’s a challenge which ends in a draw (see question 24).

Quote from: Question 28)
Similar question: Imagine I have an unoccupied cloister next to an occupied shrine. I place a tile which completes both buildings, and choose to move a follower into the cloister from the City of Carcassonne. Does this declare a challenge, and if so, who wins?
Answer: That’s not possible, since the unoccupied cloister is not scored (only occupied features are scored, while unoccupied ones are simply completed). So no follower can be moved there.

Quote from: Question 29)
Say I have a heretic engaged in a challenge with a monk, and I place the tile which completes the monk's cloister, so that the monk scores 9 points and I score 0. Can I still move a follower to CC in this case?
Answer: Yes, triggered scoring, received no points: conditions fulfilled.

Quote from: Question 30)
When a challenge is resolved, both the monk and heretic are removed from play. What if that leaves one of the buildings incomplete? Can I reoccupy it using a magic portal or a follower from the City of Carcassonne?
Answer: Gnnnn… (damn!)
Yes, that’s allowed (if unforeseen).

Quote from: Question 31)
In the new rules for The River II, it says ‘Der Fluss wird zu Beginn der Partie ausgelegt.’ Does the word ‘Partie’ have any special meaning? I haven’t seen it in the rules before…
Answer: No, that’s just someone getting creative. It doesn’t have any particular meaning.

Quote from: Question 32)
Can a shorter tower capture the follower from a taller tower, or does the tower need to be equal or greater in height?
Answer: The height of the tower only determines the range of the ‘attack’ and has no other function.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 10:02:36 am by mjharper » Logged

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mjharper
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2008, 09:59:12 am »

A lot to wade through here, which is partly why I thought it better to start a new thread (having compiled the questions here).

I should draw attention to Question 3 (a ruling in progress), Question 16 (I screwed up the translation), Question 20 (misunderstood the question?) and Question 28 (does that contradict previous rulings?).
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Novelty
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« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2008, 10:15:22 am »

Q3 is a good ruling.  I also like the confirmation of a few other things.  Thanks for taking the time to ask the questions and post the answers Matt.  So... erm... will you be incorporating these into the annotated rules?  Please?
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mjharper
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« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2008, 10:45:23 am »

Yes, they'll definitely be added (well, maybe not all). I've been kicking around a new layout though, and the question is going to be whether to update the CAR before using the new layout… That seems like a extra work to me. Also, if HiG want to use/reference the FAQ collected here (as they asked!) I need to tidy it up somewhat.

So I'm feeling that the priority should be:
1) Beat the FAQ section into shape (hasn't even been updated with the last correspondence from HiG);
2) Get the new layout for the CAR sorted;
3) Add the rules for the 6th expansion and all these FAQ to the CAR.

2) and 3) probably happen at much the same time, in reality. Also, it would be kind of nice to have all that done for the anniversary of the CarcassonneCentral launch… So we're looking at a lot of work in the next month. I'll have to see.
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« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2008, 05:39:58 pm »

It seems to me that he missunderstood #19 as well.
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mjharper
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« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2008, 05:55:04 pm »

It seems to me that he missunderstood #19 as well.
Maybe… but it seems clear enough that you should avoid such situations.

I did write back this afternoon and I asked about #16, which I screwed up. I decided not to ask about #20, because I realised where he was coming from, or rather, where we were coming from.

It seems to me that we were thinking that resolving a challenge is somehow like triggering scoring. Except it isn't. The competition between cloister and shrine is not the same as the competition between two players in a city, because the cloister and shrine are two buildings, not one. So while in the city, if one player loses the majority but has the fairy s/he still gets three points, the loser in the shrine/cloister competition won't. In the city case, the loser gets 3 points because s/he is still in the city; but in the shrine/cloister case, victory removes the loser from his/her building. The building is not even complete, let alone scored.

Imagine this scenario: the cloister finished (all 9 tiles) when the shrine has only 6. The fact that the cloister has scored does not mean that the shrine will score. The shrine can't score—it's only got 6 tiles! Instead, the heretic is removed from the shrine—as if it had been scored—but without actually having been scored.

Basically, I think there's a slight confusion in the rules, rather than in Georg's reply. Strictly speaking, the loser does not score zero (a parallel to the loser in a city) but is not involved in scoring at all.

Now, we can still write back for confirmation; but I thought it was important to realise what was going on first.
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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2008, 11:15:59 pm »

A few thoughts:

First, thanks to Matt for all the work on this.

I agree that the ruling on Q3 is a good one.

I agree with Matt's thinking on the situation with Q20 as per the last post.

A lot of things have been cleared up and we are even ahead on some issues with the new expansion before it has become commonly available.

The only thing that seems clearly unresolved (pending Matt's latest  note) seems to be whether a mayor can escape to a cloister/Abbey/Shrine?

There is an  implicit  clarification that the difference between followers and special figures is determined by their "deployment" rather than any other characteristic. This may help to explain the issue when it comes up again. (Possible footnote in the CAR someday?)

Finally, in the answer to Question 4 about what is "connected", it says "two cities never connect to each other (in the current land tiles) . . ."  Might this mean more extensions later with different city tiles that do have connections?

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« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2008, 12:40:48 am »

He was confused by #28, but I think I've figured out the answer based on some of the other answers. If the unoccupied cloister and occupied shrine are completed at the same time, parachuting a follower into the cloister does not create a challenge because the features are already completed. Both would also score the full nine points, as per the answer to #24.

Is the new FAQ section going to match the style of the rest of the site? I'm also hoping that the way in which it is organized will be less confusing.

I'm concerned that changing the layout is going to be more effort than it's worth. Because of the hybrid dimensions, it's not going to fit perfectly on Letter or A4, but end up being close in both cases. Wouldn't this lead to wasted space?
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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2008, 02:52:00 am »

Is the new FAQ section going to match the style of the rest of the site? I'm also hoping that the way in which it is organized will be less confusing.
What less confusing? The FAQ section, or the way it fits in with the rest of the site? As far as the second is concerned, we're planning a significant revamp of the site in an attempt to make everything feel like it fits together better. Problem is, we've got three systems running—four if you count the downloads, which will also be getting an upgrade. As far as the FAQ section itself is concerned, I wasn't planning to alter the organisation much, just the content and look. So if it's that which is confusing, let me know. (Might be best to start a new thread).

I'm concerned that changing the layout is going to be more effort than it's worth. Because of the hybrid dimensions, it's not going to fit perfectly on Letter or A4, but end up being close in both cases. Wouldn't this lead to wasted space?
Yes it would. The last draft I made was in (perfect) A5, and I'd be curious to know how that suits the Americans… Reformating like this gives me the chance to tidy up some messy parts (like floating graphics instead of inline ones), and re-do all the graphics. You know, BGG have a 5MB upload limit? The CAR, without the new expansion and notes, comes in at 7MB, unless I strip the hell out of the graphics. A lot of work, but it will be worth it—I just need to know what everyone likes.
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« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2008, 09:38:07 am »

Just got word back from HiG on Q16:

Mayors and Wagons can also escape via cloisters and abbeys. (Although I'd find it quite amusing if the Mayor went down with the ship, like an honourable captain Wink )


So that's that—the rules say 'knight', and follower is okay.
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« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2008, 06:58:40 am »

My first post here, after much loitering and downloading!

Thank you for maintaining such a great resource. I am a big fan of Carcassonne and gave 6 copies of the base game as Christmas presents to various people.

I would be very happy with an A5 sized annotated rules - it would allow me to print it in booklet form in a blatant misuse of my companies printers.....
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« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2008, 07:13:10 am »

My first post here, after much loitering and downloading!

Welcome, Richard. Great to have you here.

I would be very happy with an A5 sized annotated rules - it would allow me to print it in booklet form in a blatant misuse of my companies printers.....

I'm glad to see that the blatant misuse of company printers is not unique to me Wink  Grin
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mjharper
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« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2008, 09:30:39 am »

I would be very happy with an A5 sized annotated rules - it would allow me to print it in booklet form in a blatant misuse of my companies printers.....

I'm glad to see that the blatant misuse of company printers is not unique to me Wink  Grin
Or me… Waving
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« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2008, 10:53:01 am »

It's called "consistency testing". Gotta make sure that the quality of the print job stays the same from the first page to the last.
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