Kevin Graham's Variants

[Joff]

I was pondering over Kevin Graham's Carcassonne variants today and thought that a couple of the ideas had possibilities. The first is called 'Trading Posts'. Here is Kevin's description:

TRADING POSTS

Each player gets 2 Trading Posts. You can use just about anything for a Trading Post as long as they match each player’s color. I use the huts from Carcassonne: Hunters & Gatherers.
Instead of placing a meeple on your turn, you can place a Trading Post. It must be placed on a city that you already have a meeple on. You may place a Trading Post on a city occupied by another player as long as you have at least one meeple on that city too. However, you cannot place a trading post on a city that already has a trading post on it (yours or your opponents).
Once the city is closed, you can take your meeples back like normal, but you must leave the trading post where it is. At the end of the game you will receive 5 points for every closed city that your trading post is connected to via roads.
Intersections in roads have no affect on the connectivity of a trading post. A road between two cities with an intersection is still considered a valid connection.

In the example on below, at the end of the game, Blue scores 10 points (5 points per connected city) since the city with his trading post is connected to 2 other cities via roads.

and the second that caught my eye is called 'Tax Collector'.

TAX COLLECTOR

Each player gets one tax collector. You can only play a tax collector on an unoccupied city. If later in the game you can connect the city tile with your tax collector on it to a city with an
opponent’s meeple on it, you subtract 3 points from their score, and add 3 points it to your score. The tax collector does not count as a meeple when counting who has the most meeples on a city. The tax collector is returned to your stock when the city is closed. The tax collector can be assassinated if you are using the Assassins variant (As described in the pdf file - see below).

The create the tax collectors, I used a gold pen to draw a medallion around the necks of one meeple of each color. I use the meeples from a second set of Carcassonne I bought just for creating variants. A cheap alternative is to just give everyone a penny. When you place the tax collector, just use a normal meeple and place the penny under it.

Kevin gives better pics in his pdf file http://files.boardgamegeek.com/viewfile.php3?fileid=5678 as well as explaining other variants.

If you've used any of these ideas before, let me know how they played out.

[Gantry]

Kevin is one of the most prolific of all the variant authors.  I really like his thinking.  Those two are good, as well as "Quests".  For more of his variants, check out the variant registry detail view, just use CTRL-F to search for his name.

[Joff]

Ok, i've at last purchased some webspace, and uploaded comprehensive (I think) instructions for Trading Posts and Carcassonne Prison in pdf format. Thanks to all those in letting me know how to create the pdf's easily. Have a look through and let me know if there's anything missing that might crop up in a game. I have based the layout on CAR, as you will see, let me know of any improvements that can be done as this (The Variants Guide) is a work in progress. I will try to upload the first few pages in a pdf shortly.

The two variants originate from Kevin Graham, although i've extended the rules to cater for other eventualities. Kevin is aware of my changes and I have his permission to post. One rule in particular, in Trading Posts, where I differ from his original is the amount of Trading Posts one recieves at the start of the game. Kevin suggests 2, I say 1. We use Trading posts in almost every game of Carc we play, but it works better as part of a mega game. Anyway, have a go, see what you think and give me some feedback. Hope you enjoy.

http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne

[Scott]

Well done! Would be great to see more variants done like this.

[Gantry]

Joff, that is really slick!  I'll put your additions on the variant registry.  Before you bought your web space I was thinking that there could have been some opportunity to collaborate a bit, ie if you did more pdfs and updates to variants, you could join the CC team as a contributing author and help me out with the variants side of things.  If talking more about this does interest you, PM me, and the admin team and you can toss some ideas around in this area.  If not, no problem at all, I'll gladly add whatever you have into the variant database.

[wicke]

As some of you have heard already, I have had plans of making a new tile for the City of Carcassonne,
to include the prison for Kevin Graham's expansion Prison.
I had first intended to use tile 6, but today my girlfriend Azucena Karlqvist made tile 7 into a prison, and I was now wondering if it would be possible to include that tile as a house-rule in the Prison expansion.
I can email the picture to anyone interested.
Cheers
.../Wicke

[Joff]

Here is the images that wicke is referring to:





First off, I see no difference between this tile to the standard number 7 tile.

What purpose would the Prison tile serve? Kevin Graham's Carcassonne Prison expansion uses a prison board that is numbered 1-6. A follower is moved up one place on that board each turn, until he is free again. How would you implement this mechanic using your custom tile? Do you have any further ideas?

Edit: Ahhh, at first I thought you meant as a prison within Carcassonne City... what you mean using the tile mixed in with the regular tiles and when adding it to a city, it becomes a prison? Is that correct?

[wicke]

No, the tile replaces tile 7 of Carcassonne City (the wall now goes around and makes up a prison yard).
So then you don't have to keep a separate prison scoreboard on the side.

The prison mechanic from Graham's expansion becomes easier as well.
Instead of having to move the prisoner 6 steps, I will (at least as a house-rule) just put a prisoner there and keep him there until another follower is taken prisoner.
Both me and my girlfriend, thought that the 6 steps would be bothersome, not just to move the follower each turn, but also to remember to move him every turn.
.../Wicke

[Joff]

No, the tile replaces tile 7 of Carcassonne City (the wall now goes around and makes up a prison yard).

Ok, I see the difference now I really must replace my glasses!

[Novelty]

Both me and my girlfriend, thought that the 6 steps would be bothersome, not just to move the follower each turn, but also to remember to move him every turn.

Why not just play with the tile as it is?  If you don't need to move it 6 steps and remember to move it at the start off the turn, then just place the meeple on a building that you agree to be the prison.  No modifications to the tile needed IMO to do that.

To incorporate Kevin Graham's prison properly on that tile, it clearly does need the 1 to 6 on that tile, and there isn't really enough space on that tile for all that.

[Joff]

Instead of having to move the prisoner 6 steps, I will (at least as a house-rule) just put a prisoner there and keep him there until another follower is taken prisoner.

Out of interest, how do you release a prisoner from jail should another prisoner not be detained, or can you not do that?

[wicke]

The reason for my ideas about the tile and the rule change, was to update and simplify the expansion.
And of course the tile doesn't NEED to have a prison on it, but I never thought that you, Novelty, would be the one to comment on that, since you have made so many extra tiles, and some with just a little snow on them for instance.

About the 1-6 steps, I think it's the worst part of the 'Prison' rules. Bothersome and totally unnecessary. Of course, that means that a prisoner can be kept in jail more than 6 rounds but if you want to get the follower back, ok, then you just have to try and capture some follower yourself.

By the way, Novelty commented on 'The House of Valois' if it were a variant or expansion.
Of course it's an expansion, but since Jonathan incorporated the word variant in the subtitle, I didn't think it was up to me to comment on that, especially since this thread has had the title Kevin Graham's Variants for a whole year (without comment). I think that Kevin Graham's additions, clearly are expansions as well.

[Joff]

About the 1-6 steps, I think it's the worst part of the 'Prison' rules. Bothersome and totally unnecessary. Of course, that means that a prisoner can be kept in jail more than 6 rounds but if you want to get the follower back, ok, then you just have to try and capture some follower yourself.

That's interesting, as I think the 1-6 steps is one of the best features of that expansion. I don't personally like the idea of not being able to release your follower without taking another captive. There should be a way to get your follower back without capturing another meeple.

By the way Novelty commented on 'The House of Valois' if it were a variant or expansion.
Of course it's an expansion, but since Jonathan incorporated the word variant in the subtitle, I didn't think it was up to me to comment on that, especially since this thread has had the title Kevin Graham's Variants for a whole year (without comment). I think that Kevin Graham's additions, clearly are expansions as well.

This comment really should be in The House of Valois thread. I have only uploaded the rules that were sent to me as is, as I have not rewritten them as yet (The Pope is the only one I have rewritten as yet). The definition of an expansion (IMO, for me) is one that adds new pieces to the game, but that is not necessarily someone elses definition. These are not my rules, but I would (and will) change them when I give it a rewrite, and then it would only be finished when wicke says so. These are his rules after all. The variant subtitle, appeared on the original template and one is free to change this as one sees fit.

I also think Kevin Grahams 'variants' are expansions also, but these have rule changes that are approved by Kevin himself, and he calls them variants, so that is what I went by when updating his 'variants', besides, this thread and those rewrites were done when I was quite new to CC and so my definitions of variants/expansions were not concrete then.

[Novelty]

The reason for my ideas about the tile and the rule change, was to update and simplify the expansion.

That would be your house rule then.

And of course the tile doesn't NEED to have a prison on it, but I never thought that you, Novelty, would be the one to comment on that, since you have made so many extra tiles, and some with just a little snow on them for instance.

  Well, I know how snow looks like.  I'm not sure I know how a (French) dungeon looks like, so I don't think I can draw it.  I stand by my comment it doesn't need it, but if you or someone else can do it, please do go ahead.  I'd like to see how a French dungeon looks like from the outside.

[Scott]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastille