Towers and double turns

[dwhitworth]

Is the builder-produced second tile a second "turn" or not? The consolidated rules are ambiguous.

If it is two turns, can I play a tower piece in each turn? And take two prisoners - if applicable?

If the answer is "yes" to both, then the rule that says, for prisoner exchange, the second tile is still part of one "turn" and only happens once would seem to be broken. If the answser is "no" then why not?

If you allow the two tower pieces in sequence a tower can suddenly become very powerful without much warning!

D

[mjharper]

What HiG said to me was that the double turn is only one turn. As far as tiles are concerned, a double turn lets you do everything twice—take a second tile, place it, deploy a meeple or tower piece, move the dragon, score features, collect trade goods, move a meeple to the city of Carcassonne, and so on. All of these acts either involve tiles directly, or a triggered by tiles.

On the other hand, there are a few 'once a turn' conditions which are not tile-related—such as buying back a prisoner, a knight escaping from a besieged city via a cloister, and indeed taking a double turn. These may only be done once in that player's turn.

It might clarify the situation to think of the double turn as a single 'extended' turn in which you take and place two tiles, one after the other.

Hope that helps a little!

[dwhitworth]

Thanks for the info on this point - it helps clarify the double turn stuff.

At the risk of being a bit picky though, there is a small issue remaining here.
1. Double turns allow a builder that is freed on the first tile, to be played on the second tile.
2. If that is so, why not allow a prisoner exchanged after a tower attack in the first turn to be played on the second tile?
3. But that would be a prisoner exchange before the end of a (Full) turn and surely is not in the spirit of the rest of the rules where that kind of use of a piece recovered in that turn is not allowed - e.g. the rule that says a piece retreived from a completed road/city cannot be used that same turn.

So I conclude that prisoner exchange can occur "immediately" and in this case at the end of the first turn, BUT the released prisoner cannot be used until the next full turn.

This seems to me to be similar to the way that a follower removed when the first tile completes a city/road cannot be used on the second tile (you can use a different follower if you have one) - even though the bulider can.  Yet another example of how a follower is "special".

Hmmm, I checked the annotated rules and my last point above seems to be implied, but not explicitly covered there. But it makes sense to me.

D