Abbey & Mayor - some rules clarifications

[EcoGuy]

Sorry I missed the submittal of questions for HiG.  I just played my first game with Abbey and Mayor and K,C&C and have one of question that I do not think I saw clarified anywhere.

If a feature is completed and scored that contains the wagon, the wagon can be moved to a connected incomplete feature but can a follower also be placed and the newly placed tile for instance playing a farmer in a field?

[Novelty]

Well, the original rules were

1a. Draw a tile
1b. Place it
2a. Place a meeple
2b. Or... or... or... (depending on which expansions you are playing with)
3a. Score

Moving the wagon occcurs after 3a.  So let's say that I have a wagon on a road and I draw a tile that can complete it (1a).  I then complete the road with my wagon (1b).  Then I can place a meeple on the tile I just played (2a).  If I want to I can place a meeple as a farmer on the tile with the road that I just played.  Then I score the road I completed (3a).  After all that, I may move my wagon to an adjacent city (for example).

So to answer your question: Yes, you can still do 2a or 2b when you complete a feature with a wagon.

You can also complete a feature without a wagon (1b), then place the wagon from your hand (2b), score the feature (3a) and then move the wagon (3b) that you have just placed this turn.

I hope that answers your question.

[EcoGuy]

  Yes it did thank you.  Now for a follow-up. For the movement of the wagon, the rules say move to a neighboring which I interpret as immediately adjacent as in the surrounding nine tiles. However, the rules give a picture example of a wagon moving two tiles away and states its not possible because that road was a completed feature not because it was to far away. Furthermore I say a clarification that the wagon can only move to incomplete features if there is a connecting road.

So I assume the connecting road is correct but how far can the wagon move or is the example in the rules a poor example and confuses the issue?

[Novelty]

Well, there's a bit of disagreement there.  There's a thread somewhere here questioning what's "adjacent" and whether they mean "connected to".

See posts 3 and 4 of this thread.

[Joff]

Quote from: Question 4)
What is the definition of "connected" for the Wagon?  If two city walls are touching (maybe even only at a point), can I drive my Wagon from one to another?

Answer: ‘Connected’ means roads which lead to crossings and roads which head directly ‘into’ a city or a cloister. Two cities never connect to each other (in the current land tiles). So the wagon has to use the roads to move—it’s a wagon, after all.

This question now has been officialy answerd by HiG.

However, i'm not sure about how far on the incomplete feature it is allowed to move though. If it can move to any tile of the unfinished, unoccupied but connected feature, this might cause difficulties (for other players) when using the Tower or P&D. It doesn't seem fair to allow the wagon to move to (for instance) the second tile on a road to avoid being captured by a tower, but maybe that's the 'power' of the wagon?

[mjharper]

That's a good point… My guess is that the wagon can move to any point on the incomplete feature.

[Scott]

I agree with Matt. That's the power of the wagon.

[Joff]

This actually might be good to get an official ruling on. I would have thought that it would be able to move to any tile of an incomplete, unoccupied and connected area. So on that I would agree with Matt and Scott, but perhaps HiG will give us an official answer.

[Novelty]

So I assume the connecting road is correct but how far can the wagon move or is the example in the rules a poor example and confuses the issue?

So to summarise up the 3 posts above and to answer your question: The wagon can move more than a square away provided that the feature it is moving to is:
1. Incomplete
2. Unoccupied
and
3. Connected to where the wagon was

Of course, we'd like HiG to confirm.

Anyways:
If the wagon is on a completed city, then it can only move to any space along an unoccupied and uncompleted road that is connected to the city
If the wagon is on a completed cloister or cult place, then it can only move to any space along an unoccupied and uncompleted road that is connected to the cloister or cult place.
If the wagon is on a completed abbey, it can't move at all since nothing is connected to the abbey. **
If the wagon is on a completed road, then it can move to either
a) an uncompleted and unoccupied city connected to the road
b) an uncompleted and unoccupied cloister connected to the road
c) another uncompleted and unoccupied road connected to the road

Phew, the summary is longer than the answers

** A quick question: do we know if wagons can be placed in abbeys and cult places or to the city of carcassonne?

[mdjvz]

Maybe I am missing something but I do not understand:

"If the wagon is on a completed abbey, it can't move at all since nothing is connected to the abbey."

Why is this?  I would guess If a street leads right into a abbey i t would be connected, or am I missing some "ruling"??

Michiel

[Novelty]

Erm... no, think about it this way: The abbey has a high wall around it such that the whole/entire tile consists of the abbey.  A road is completed by the abbey, but the abbey is not connected to, or part of, anything else, not to adjacent fields, not to adjacent castles and not to adjacent roads.  The field/road/castle ends at the abbey wall/border.

[mdjvz]

Well that is one way to look at it
I imagine a abbey is a very friendly hospitable place with no wall at all 

  Anyway. If the rules are not clear on this, I think, it would be nice to have an official ruling on this, in the next round of questions to HiG.

Michiel

[Novelty]

Matt has already asked for a clarification:

If an Abbey tile completes a road/city that is unoccupied can the player use a follower from their hand to complete and score that feature in that turn - as they could with placement of a road or city tile?

Answer: No, the follower can only be deployed to the tile just placed, so only to the abbey.

Can the wagon move to an incomplete, empty, Abbey when the road/city it is on is completed? That is: is the road/city "adjacent" to the Abbey even though the Abbey tile has no city/road segment?

Answer: No. Just like in the first question, connections are made via roads.

[Joff]

** A quick question: do we know if wagons can be placed in abbeys and cult places or to the city of carcassonne?

Maybe I am missing something but I do not understand:

"If the wagon is on a completed abbey, it can't move at all since nothing is connected to the abbey."

Why is this?  I would guess If a street leads right into a abbey i t would be connected, or am I missing some "ruling"??

Erm... no, think about it this way: The abbey has a high wall around it such that the whole/entire tile consists of the abbey.  A road is completed by the abbey, but the abbey is not connected to, or part of, anything else, not to adjacent fields, not to adjacent castles and not to adjacent roads.  The field/road/castle ends at the abbey wall/border.

This could well need clarifying from HiG.

At present, my understanding is this:

If the wagon occupies the Abbey tile, at the completion of the Abbey (ie: 8 tiles surround, the same way as a completed cloister), the wagon is free to move to an unoccupied, incomplete road that adjoins the Abbey tile. Although the Abbey tile brings to an abrupt halt and does not extend the road/city concerned, it does not prevent movement of the wagon to those unoccupied, incomplete features upon completion of the Abbey. In the same way the wagon would be able to move to an incomplete Abbey from a completed road/city that connects to it.

[Scott]

What you guys are talking about sounds to me like the inverse of Question 10, and the answer would be the same: connections are made via roads. Wagon cannot move to or from an abbey.