Abbey & Mayor - some rules clarifications

[mjharper]

So, I got a response from HiG this morning to a bunch of questions I asked, and here they are:

Q1: What is the status of the mayor, the barn and the wagon? Are they followers or 'special figures' like the builder and the pig?
A: Ah… that old chestnut!
The mayor is a follower, subject to the usual rules of deployment and affects the majority.
The barn is a special figure, although it can also be counted as a follower.
As far as the wagon is concerned, I'm a little uncertain, but I'd nevertheless count it as a follower.
In principle all followers can be eaten or captured, while the special figures cannot.

Q2: According to the rules, "no other figure" may be in same feature as the wagon - does that include the fairy, the dragon and tower pieces (because they're all figures)?
A: We didn't pay enough attention here (damn!): instead of "figure" it should read "follower". As such the question shouldn't arise. The fairy normally stands next to a follower (except when the follower is taken prisoner) and so the feature would already be occupied. The dragon would eat the immediately and the tower is always on its own feature (the tower foundation).

Q3: Can the fairy be placed next to the barn and if so, does the player score a bonus point each turn and 3 extra points during scoring?
A: Following question 1: No, because the barn is not a follower.

Q4: Can the mayor and the wagon be eaten by the dragon, captured by the tower, or seduced by a princess?
A: Also following question 1: Yes (at which point the question of what the princess does with the wagon arises…)

Q5: Can the mayor and the wagon (or the barn) be placed in the appropriate quarter of Carcassonne City?
A: Mayor and wagon: Yes; barn: no.

Q6: Can the mayor, the wagon and the barn use a magic portal?
A: Mayor and wagon: Yes; barn: no.

Q7: Does a player still score double points for a besieged city if it lies on a farm with a barn?
A: Yes.

Q8: Does the pig-herd tile still score an extra point (barn = 4 points, barn+pig-herd = 5 points per city)?
A: The pig-herd tile only counts in connection with farmers, not the barn.

Q9: Can the mayor, the wagon, or the barn be placed on top of a tower?
A: No, the deployment of these figures is limited to the features described in the rules.

Q10: Can a knight in a besieged city escape via an abbey, or only via a cloister?
A: Yes: the abbey has all the characteristics of a cloister. In this respect more is on its way - in the next expansion (really just a collection of the mini-expansions) there will also be 'places of worship' which have a close connection to cloisters. We have to rule out various problems here…

Q11: In the case of the tile with the well and three 'roads': do all the 'roads' have to be completed before scoring?
A: Yes.

Q12: When an abbey tile is placed, can a follower be deployed next to the abbey (as a knight, for example), as it is possible to do with a cloister? Or does the whole tile count as the abbey and so only monks can be deployed to it?
A: No, the abbey covers the whole tile. The surroundings are not a city.

Q13: Can a follower be moved from Carcassonne City to a farm with a barn - and if so, how many points does a player earn (1 or 3)?
A: Yes, that is allowed: the farmer will then be scored immediately, and so scores only 1 point per city and is (importantly) not on the farm during the final scoring proper.


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So, the sixth expansion is also confirmed, and it sounds to me like it should include The Cathars - cool!

That was everything I could think of - can anyone think of anything else?

EDIT: typos, typos, typos…

[mdjvz]

So I guess the answer of Question Q9 means that you can only place a big follower, ór a small follower on a tower?

(I think the Wagon surely would not fit on a Tower, but a mayor... maybe, I would have to try, I do not have this expansion yet)

Most questions are incorporated in the new rules. But this one I could not find in any footnote.

[mdjvz]

According to Q8, the pig-herd doesn't count for barns, that is clear.
But is a pig-herd counted when a barn is placed on it? (so normal count here)
and  is a pig-herd counted when a farm is merged with barn? (e.g. farm 1 pt, farm+pig 2pt, farm+pig-herd 2pt, farm + pig + pig-heard 3pt)

[Gantry]

Anyone else think it's time for 4th Edition Rules?   

[Scott]

With all the footnotes built in? Yeah.

[Borderking]

But then if all the new rules were clear, what would we have to talk about?   

[mdjvz]

Sounds like a good idea (4th Edition Rules) 

[canada steve]

Hmm as per usual from the HiG some more clarifications that can cause further debate.

Q1, the anser states "Barn is special figure but CAN be a follwer"
Q3 the answer states "Following question 1: No, because the barn is not a follower"

Now I would see those two statemenst as a tad ambiguous !

[lapalj]

Hi,

If the well card is used to connect three road segments and each road segment is owned by a different person (let say only one follower per road), how are the roads scored :

Do we consider that the placement of the well causes the creation of three seperate roads, one single roads, or somethings else....

Thank you,

james lapalme

[Tobias]

Hi,

If the well card is used to connect three road segments and each road segment is owned by a different person (let say only one follower per road), how are the roads scored :

Do we consider that the placement of the well causes the creation of three seperate roads, one single roads, or somethings else....

Thank you,

james lapalme

In that case the well-tile will merge the roads into one, and that road is scored by majority, as usual.

[dwhitworth]

There are some questions we have discovered (i.e. argued about!) when placing an Abbey tile to complete a city or road, if the Abbey tile contains no city or road "space" as noted above in this thread. I have noted in each case our current "house rule" but would appreciate feedback or more authoritative ruling.

1. Do I score point(s) for the Abbey tile when calculating the score of the road or city? Certainly in the case of the abbey being scored as a "super cloister" it counts as one of the tiles, but it is not clear how to score it for roads and cities.

(HR: No. The Abbey "terminates" but does not "complete" the city/road. The Abbot is very determined to use every inch of space for his monks and build his abbey walls right on the property line.)

2. If I complete a city/road with the abbey tile and there is a builder in the city, do I get a second tile as I would if I had completed it with a city/road tile?

(HR: No. The city is "terminated" at the Abbey, not "extended".)

3. If I place an Abbey tile in such a way that it Terminates one side/end of (but does not complete the rest of the city/road) and the city/road has my builder on it, then does that entitle me to a second tile?

(HR: No. As above because the city/road is not "extended".)

4. It seems clear that if I place an Abbey tile in the centre of eight other tiles so that it is immediately completed, and if I have followers in my hand, I can score nine points by placing one of those followers on it and immedialtely removing it (just like I could with a cloister).  But what if the placement of the Abbey completes a city or road (or both, or more than two . . .) on which there is no follower, and I have a follower in my hand? Do I then get to choose the most advantageous of the scores?

(HR: Yes. You can place one of your spare followers on the feature that gives you the best score - bearing in mind #1 above - and then remove it.)

And a note for Borderking: don't worry, once the rules become crystal clear there will be a new game expansion produced. . . .

D

[mjharper]

I'd agree with those house rules, but we'll have to wait and see for official rulings…

[dwhitworth]

Thanks for looking over those points Matt, but my local Carcassonne Lawyer has taken issue with house rule #4 and I think she is right. The rationale is:

When completing a city/road and scoring it "instantly" with a follower from your hand you are in theory placing a follower on "the tile you just placed" to complete the city/road and then removing it. Normally that tile will have a bit of city/road to accomodate this action.  BUT the Abbey tile has no city/road bits and therefore you can't place the follower from your hand on "the tile you just placed" (the Abbey tile) to earn the score. You can of course place a "monk" on that tile and so the score for abbey as cloister is OK.

So we are changing our rule (until there is an official ruling) and we will disallow scoring as described in #4 above.

However we do agree that when the Abbey tile completes cities that contain resources, the usual resource distribution to the tile placing player will be allowed.

It may be helpful eventually to get official rulings on these points if you think it worthwhile.

D

[Scott]

I agree with dwhitworth.

[mjharper]

Hmm… she may be right, at that.

Still, definitely worth getting an official ruling.