Phantom Twist

[olmstemd]

Right now I see the phantom as a piece mainly used to get a few points when you complete a feature with and put a follower on a different feature and put the phantom on the completed feature for a few points and get him immediately back.  I think it just makes the score higher while also taking away some of the risk, should I get points for this feature OR work on something else.

What if the phantom was more like a ghost, only lasts for a very short while.  Something like,

You can play the phantom on any feature on the just played tile as long as it does not complete the feature (even if there are already followers on the feature).  At the beginning of your next turn, return your phantom to your play area.  The phantom counts like a normal follower when counted for scoring.  (Would bring him back to play area after feature completed).

I see it better in a game with several players, but also if you can get in a city that an opponent really wants to be completed.
Thoughts?

[Carcking]

I like this idea. We too have resolved/realized that the phantom has become just a means to grab a couple extra points for a completed feature you wouldn't normally get. We almost never commit him to an incomplete feature because then you loose the point grabbing opportunity on ensuing plays. I like the time element you suggested and only deploying him on incomplete features.

I had proposed the idea to our group of calling him the Shadow and that he could only be placed on the tile if the regular follower was there with him, or something like that. We didn't get very far with it though.

Anyway, I like where you're headed. 

[Albinoasian]

nice ideas!
We've decided when we play him next we will play him like a normal meeple (ditch the phantom rules) and give him a new "special power" ... he is irremovable by dragon, princess, or tower. Makes him quite strong in that way =)

[Goonie]

Right now I see the phantom as a piece mainly used to get a few points when you complete a feature with and put a follower on a different feature and put the phantom on the completed feature for a few points and get him immediately back.  I think it just makes the score higher while also taking away some of the risk

I totally agree. I came up with a variant that might be of interest.

I call it the Fair-weather Follower. I play tested it last night and I am excited to try some rule changes by adding some decision options.

THIS IS HOW WE PLAYED IT: (In the game we play tested it in we used the base game plus River 1&2). You can play the Fair-weather Follower as the Phantom rules suggest (as a 2nd follower upon a different feature.....EXCEPT that the Fair-weather Follower must be left on an incomplete feature and not used to collect the 'quick' points). And of course you can simply just place it as your regular 'move wood' placement (errr, 'move plastic'). Once you play your next tile the opponent to whom you pass the tile bag to will take your 12-sided die, announce "one", and place the die to read 1 accordingly. This means that if you complete the feature on which the Fair-weather Follower is on, you MINUS 1 from whatever the total ended up being. If it took 5 tiles to complete the feature with the Fair-weather Folllower...MINUS 5, etc. Once you play 12 tiles without scoring the Fair-weather Follower, it comes off the board and back into your supply.

For this trial run we stipulated..
-if the player forgot to announce and change the die reading accordingly, so be it
-if there is a tie on a feature, the Fair-weather Follower only counts as 'half a meeple' (1/2, .5)
-if on an incomplete feature at games end, NO points

POINTS OF INTEREST: It was fun devoting energy to the Fair-weather Follower immediately, trying to score the feature quickly so as to reduce your growing number of 'penalty' points........AND THEN hitting that point where it took too long, making it not worth it (negative pts should you finish it!) and abandoning it. Plus it was amusing to remind the opponent to be sure to add one more to your count because you have given up and just want it back instead of earlier 'in the count', wishing they would forget.

Also it created a few features that were abandoned by other Fair-weather Followers that were available to take over. These were only slightly bigger than usual unclaimed features and were by no means an easy big point game changer.

TWEAKS THAT I HOPE TO TRY SOON:
 -Optional dice (counters) to chose from! 4sided, 6sided, 8sided, 10sided, 12sided, 20sided(megacarc anyone?) It all depends on the situation..more options to evaluate.
-allow opponents to finish the feature....to give you negative points! Serves you right for not committing a 'true' follower!

EVALUATION: We pretty much only get to play 2player games all the time and my fiancee usually only allows one expansion at a time, so I have yet to think how this might interact with other expansions. And to those of you who are lucky enough to play megacarc, this might prove to be a hassle to keep track of. One thing I thought of is you can clip a clothes-pin to the bag to remind the player 'responsible' for counting.

But anyway, I hope someone likes this enough to give it a try and would love to hear how it goes.

[Carcking]

Firstly, Welcome to the Carcassonne Central community forum!

I'm curious what is the association to "fair weather" for the naming of this expansion? I'm missing it.

This sounds like it would be as difficult to keep track of as the pesky fairy in P&D. But I like the idea of not allowing the phantom to be the "snipe" follower on the tile.

If I understand your scenario correctly the die counts up 1 on each of your turns, not on opponent turns, correct? It seems that once the tile count (turn count) approaches the value of the feature the phantom would simply be abandoned until the twelfth turn so you get him back. Continuing to keep track of the count may become passive/sporadic once the turn count gets high - especially with more than a couple expansions in play.

Appreciate the effort to enhance the play of the phantom. Keep the ideas coming. 

[Goonie]

Thank you for the welcome. I have yet to hit the one year mark since I was first introduced to Carcassonne and I only recently discovered Carcassonne Central. I have been thoroughly entertained reading through all the great dialogue. The game.... this site.....treasures!

I named it fair-weather because its the opposite of investing a regular follower who is in it for the longhaul (who is on the feature until it is scored, or games' end). The fair-weather will grab the points if they happen to be there 'early' in his visit to the feature; and 'give up' if it proves to be not in his best interest. My ancient 1964 Readers Digest "Great Encyclopedic Dictionary" definition #2... <Not helpful or dependable in adversity>. So in carc terms, he'll be happy to grab some early points, but he would rather wait until next time once he missed the easy oportunity.

In my one and only playtest this manifested itself as once the fair-weather was placed you wanted to IMMEDIATELY get to work on it in ALL your next tile moves because the clock was ticking. Often at other features expense, giving you pause on almost every tile drawn....should I go all in....play it half way...etc.

In my mind I look at it is a bonus that comes with a distraction. Personally I enjoy this risk/reward aspect and the only reason I came up with this variant is because after I brought home The Phantom and read the directions (the miniscule instructions were covered by the price tag!), I vowed never to play it. To me it screamed "Hey, less strategy! More points!". I don't play games to get high scores. I play to use my mind creatively. (that's just me, I don't got nothing against you Phantom Lovers!)

And as far as the keeping track of the fair-weather counting.......#1 - I am assuming this variant will be best when NOT using any extra meeple (builder, mayor etc).....making it more of a focus .... & #2 - you will have ALL of your opponnents reminding the counter to count early on and yourself to remind when you want it out of there! And should a turn or two be missed, not the biggest deal for the fair-weather won't be scoring many large pointers, just like his easy 'snipe' predecessor The Phantom. The only difference being is that the fair-weather demanded much more decision making!

Hopefuly I'll get to try my tweaks real soon. I already know for a fact that the option to "pick your die" will replace the automatic 12side. (roads....4sider for sure). I promise to be brief with my results .

Thanks Carcassonne Central.....I really am grateful to have all this tons o'fun reading!!

[Carcking]

What are your thoughts on dice selection? Is it random? Is it pre-determined based on the feature?

[Goonie]

For my next playtest, the placing player can decide whichever one is to his liking.
So depending on how far along the feature already is.... how easy or quick it will be to finish......what type of feature, etc. will all factor in on the decision.