Der Tunnel Rules

[Whaleyland]

And behold, this is why Google translator is not always the best option and why actual speakers of German are preferred. I too find Matt's rules better, although they still retcon the old tunnel rule by being able to claim the tunnel entrances. Also, I assume this means that Magic Portals are no longer considered tunnel entrances, which would be nice. I guess the main function of the tunnels are to steal/tie with other people's roads then by connecting them via tunnels (i.e., another offensive expansion).

[CKorfmann]

Here is where I am confused...  Are they saying that if the red player has a follower on a road and the blue player adds a tunnel and places his blue tunnel chit (assuming that he places the second tunnel and chit later), do both blue and red score for the road?  Wouldn't that make the tunnel chits essentially followers then?  That can't be right...

[Whaleyland]

Here is where I am confused...  Are they saying that if the red player has a follower on a road and the blue player adds a tunnel and places his blue tunnel chit (assuming that he places the second tunnel and chit later), do both blue and red score for the road?  Wouldn't that make the tunnel chits essentially followers then?  That can't be right...

No, I think the chits claim the tunnel, but not the road. I think you still need to have a robber on one end of the road to claim it. That way you can steal/tie other people's roads by jointly claiming it. The chits themselves just mark who owns the tunnel.

[Gwommy]

The only function of the chits is to connect two roads that both lead to a tunnel.  I'm not seeing anything(in the translation) that says that you have to own one of the roads to place a chit on a tunnel.  It also doesn't say that you have to place your second chit. So let's walk through a scenerio:

Red has a follower on a road.  One ends in a city the other end is unfinished.  Blue draws a tunnel tile and adds it to the end of the red's road and places a blue tunnel chit on it.  Blue decides not to play his second tunnel chit for the rest of the game which essentially locks red's piece on the road since it can't be completed.  Is that legal?

Although, continuing on the above example:  Red draws a tunnel tile and adds it to one of blue's unfinished roads.  Now blue has a trapped thief as well, although blue can decide to play his second chit on that tunnel which connects blue and red's roads together.  Assuming that red already played his tunnel chits, then any tunnel tile drawn for the rest of the game can only be best used to block an opponent's thief onto a road.  Is this how everyone else is understanding this as well?

[Whaleyland]

That's pretty much how I interpret it. Each player (except in a 2-player game) gets one tunnel, and the rest of the tunnels are used for blocking other players, who may or may not still have their own tunnel chits. As I said before, yet another aggressive expansion. Remember, though, there are only four tunnel tiles on the board, so they can't be used to block too many player's roads unless you first add on to their roads (add a road that connects another player's road to a tunnel), which could end up being counter-productive depending on where you are in the game.

[Novelty]

Remember, though, there are only four tunnel tiles on the board

5 including the one from P&D, and one more from A&M.  There's a lot more with the custom tiles!

[Whaleyland]

Matt, Aldaron at BGG brought up a good point that you omitted the word "additionally" from the "Mark Tunnels with Tokens" stage. Do you interpret that you can mark tunnels AND place a follower or that you can only do one or the other?

[mjharper]

You mean 'tiles may also be placed on the tile just placed' instead of just 'tiles may be placed...'?

Hmm, I didn't think that 'also' was necessary given the context, but it won't hurt to put it in. Likewise, I don't think it clarifies an interpretation of the rules.

I have no idea whether you can place a token and a follower, according to the rules given. I'd be inclined to think you can only perform one action, as that is usually the case in Carc, but on the other hand there may be a good argument that these tokens are part of the 'placement' stage and so independent of the deployment of followers. And I really don't think that 'also' affects this: all it means is that tokens may be placed on ANY open tunnel entrance.

One for HiG, I think...

[Gwommy]

I've sent the rules to one of my German friends on Facebook.  Hopefully he can come up with a yet another view for a comparison of translations.

Although, I was reading the translation from Google.  I don't know if everyone already assumed this or not, but I'm thinking that for the other tunnel tiles from the Princess and the Dragon, that placing a tunnel chit on one of tunnels is optional and if a chit is not placed, then the tunnel on the P&D tile is treated like normal where it is the same road.  I'd also say that if that road gets comleted before a tunnel chit is placed, then a tunnel chit shouldn't be allowed to be placed on either of the tunnel entrances.

I guess the biggest question is still whether or not a follower and chit can played in the same turn, or if you can play only a tunnel chit?  And if you can play both at the same time, which one is played first, or can you choose which one to be played first?

[Vulch]

Received my copy in the post last night, so am eagerly awaiting a definitive transaltion of the rules in this thread.




BTW The rest of the magazine looks fascinating, what a pity I can't read it 
Are there any similar magazines available in English?

[Whaleyland]

BTW The rest of the magazine looks fascinating, what a pity I can't read it 
Are there any similar magazines available in English?

Not since Games Quarterly went out of business two years ago, and even that magazine was a scant comparison to Spielbox.

[CKorfmann]

So let me see if I have this right...

Red has a follower on a road segment that contains 6 tiles the last of which is a tunnel.  The blue player claims the tunnel and the road eventually continues to the other "blue" tunnel on a road segment of 4 tiles.  However, there are no blue followers on either segment of the road.  10 points are scored for red?

[Whaleyland]

So let me see if I have this right...

Red has a follower on a road segment that contains 6 tiles the last of which is a tunnel.  The blue player claims the tunnel and the road eventually continues to the other "blue" tunnel on a road segment of 4 tiles.  However, there are no blue followers on either segment of the road.  10 points are scored for red?

That's how I understand it. It would be quite silly for Blue to do that, of course.

[Joff]

My copy arrived yesterday!

Here are the rules in Dutch:

"Spielbox 6 / 09 EDITION SPIELBOX SPIELBOX EDITION Carcassonne De Tunnel Carcassonne De Tunnel Voorbereiding: Voorbereiding: De vier tegels van de tunnel worden gemengd onder de overige tegels. De Vier tegels van de tunnel onder de overige been gemengd tegels. Elke speler ontvangt Elke speler ontvangt de 2 fiches van zijn eigen kleur (bij 2 spelers ontvang je de fiches van 2 kleuren). de 2 fiches van zijn kleur owned (bij 2 spelers ontvang je de kleuren van 2 fiches). Standaardregels: Standaardregels: De regels van het standaardspel blijven het zelfde. De regels van het het zelfde standaardspel blijven. Volgende regels worden toegevoegd. Volgende regels toegevoegd been. Een fiche op een tunneluitgang leggen: Een op een fiche tunneluitgang leggen: Tijdens zijn beurt mag een speler, als extra actie, een eigen fiche op een nog onbezette Tijdens zijn een speler beurt may, as an extra actie, een op een nog owned fiche onbezette tunneluitgang leggen (dit mag ook op de tegel die je net hebt aangelegd). tunneluitgang leggen (dit mag je ook op de tegel the net raises aangelegd). Wie al een fiche gelegd heeft, mag in een volgende beurt zijn 2 Like al een fiche gelegd heeft, mag zijn in een volgende beurt 2 de de fiche ook aanleggen op fiche aanleggen ook op dezelfde manier. dezelfde manier. Hierdoor loopt deze weg door als tunnel, het ene fiche is de ingang van de Hierdoor loopt deze weg door as a tunnel, het is de ene fiche ingang van de tunnel, het andere fiche is de uitgang. tunneling, het andere is de fiche uitgang. Als een weg hierdoor afgemaakt wordt, volgt er een As afgemaakt Hierdoor wordt een weg, he volgt een telling. telling. De Draak, de Fee en de Jonkvrouw: De Draak, de en de Jonkvrouw Fee: Tegels uit de uitbreiding Tiles uit de uitbreiding DE DRAAK DE DRAAK , , DE FEE EN DE JONKVROUW FEE DE DE DE Jonkvrouw waarop een tunnel staat afgebeeld, waarop een tunnel afgebeeld State, kunnen samen met de tegels uit de Spielbox-tunnel uitbreiding gebruikt worden. seeds gebruikt kunnen met de uit de tegels Spielbox tunnel uitbreiding been. De uiteinden De uiteinden kunnen ook met een fiche bedekt worden. kunnen ook met een been bedekt fiche. In dit geval loot de weg niet automatisch door deze In dit geval niet de weg automatically loot door deze tunnel. tunnel. Christwart Conrad Christwart Conrad Illustraties: Doris Matthäus Illustraties: Doris Matthäus Vertaling: Pieter Syroit – Vertaling: Pieter Syroit"

And its Google translation:

"Spielbox 6 / 09 EDITION Spielbox Spielbox EDITION Carcassonne Carcassonne The Tunnel The Tunnel Preparation: Preparation: The four tiles of the tunnel are mixed among the other tiles. The four tiles of the tunnel under the other leg mixed tiles. Each player receives 2 cards each player receives its own color (2 players receive the cards in 2 colors). 2 of the chips are color owned (with 2 players receive the colors of 2 chips). Standard Rules: Standard Rules: The rules of the game remain the same standard. The rules of the game remain the same standard. Following lines are added. Been added following lines. A chip to make a tunnel exit: an exit tunnel to lay a sheet: At its turn, a player, as a measure, one sheet at a still unoccupied own While a player may turn, as an additional measure, even owned one at a sheet unoccupied tunnel lay out (this may also be on the tile you just created). impose exit tunnel (that you can tile on the net raises built). Anyone who has placed a sheet, may in turn have a following 2 Like a sheet already placed, may be in a turn 2 the following form to also build sheet also establish the same way. same way. This road runs through the tunnel as the one sheet is the result of the entrance road that runs through a tunnel axis, it is one sheet from the tunnel, the other sheet is output. tunneling, the other is the output sheet. As a way this is completed, there follows an Axis finished result is a path, he follows a census. count. The Dragon, the Fee and the lady: The Dragon and the lady Fee: Roofing Tiles in the expansion of extension THE DRAGON THE DRAGON, THE FEE AND THE THE THE THE FEE maiden lady when a tunnel is given, which one tunnel appearing, can together with the tiles from the tunnel extension Spielbox used. seeds can be used with the tiles Spielbox bone tunnel enlargement. The ends The ends may also be covered with a sheet. can also be coated with a bone chip. In this case the loot this way does not automatically In this case the path automatically loot through this tunnel. tunnel. Christwart Conrad Conrad Christwart Illustrations: Doris Matthäus Illustrations: Doris Matthäus Translation: Peter Syroit - Translation: Pieter Syroit"

[Joff]

Here is John Sweeny's translation (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/455033):

"Tunnel expansion for Carcassonne Spielbox 6/09

Preparation
The four tiles are mixed with those of the basic game. Every player receives the Tunnel Tokens corresponding to their color. In two-player games each player may use two sets of tokens.

Basic Rules
All the rules of the basic game are used, with these additions:

Marking Tunnels with Tokens
During their turn, a player may place one of their Tunnel Tokens on any currently unoccupied tunnel entrance. A Tunnel Token may be placed on the tile currently being placed. This is in addition to placing a follower and takes place immediately after follower placement.

When the second Tunnel Token of a particular color is placed the tunnel has been defined: one token marks the tunnel entrance, the other marks the exit. A road which enters one or more tunnels is complete once all road segments are terminated and each relevant Tunnel is defined by a matching pair of Tunnel Tokens. When scoring a completed road which goes through a tunnel, if there are followers on more than one road segment then the normal rules apply for deciding who scores for the complete road, with all followers being considered to be on the same road.

Other Tunnel Tiles
Tiles from other expansions, such as Princess and Dragon, which also depict tunnels, can be used with these rules. If it is agreed to do so, then such roads are not considered to be continued on the same tile; instead the tunnel entrances are treated exactly the same as the tunnel entrances on the Tunnel expansion tiles."