Lotr2- The Two Towers

[meepleater]

Okay, I stopped work on this for a long time, but here it is:

The Two Towers!! The second installment in the LotR series.

Rules are here: http://www.mediafire.com/?ygd1mwnz0rm

It has the same type of quest tiles as the first one, and so can be combined or kept separate from the previous one.

Tiles:

The Quest Tiles:
1. The Dead Marshes
2. The Black gate
3. Ithilien
4. Henneth Annun
5. Fangorn
6. Edoras
7. Helms Deep
8. Isengard

The other four are new 'gift' tiles. One is a tower, the other three offer pieces of maps, which are similar in some respects to JPutt927's 'Seasons', but affect one player, and players have to 'earn' them.

Some examples:







The maps are cut up into their respective quarters before the first game, and are built piece by piece during the games.

When this is done, I'll get to work on LotR3- Return of the King (hopefully in a few weeks' time)

Comments?

[meepleater]

Constructive critisism anyone? Come on, I know you all want to comment on this... 

[Gwommy]

Here are my thoughts.  Keep in mind that I've never really seen LotR, and I've not played with your first LotR expansion.

The quest tiles sound cool.  Although limiting where they go sounds like you'd very rarely find tiles that would actually place.  it'd probably be better if they were surrounded by walls that could be placed anywhere like the black tower map tile or the Abbey, or even having one or two of those walls would be cool.  Hmm...That just gave me a new idea for another expansion.

Also, there's no bonus for placing quest tiles.  If the quest tiles are more likely to be harder to place, it seems like you should get an extra point or two for placing one.

As for the gift/map tiles, that's a pretty cool idea as well.  My only concern is that looking at the bonus/flaw stats, it does not make me want to earn those pieces because too many of them are too negative.  I'm seeing two tiles, maybe three, that I'd like to have, but if another player gets them first, then I wouldn't want to try to go for them anymore.  Upon which, I'd suggest maybe making 8 more gifts(2 of each type), otherwise if two road gifts are gone, then you'll know which one is left and you may not want it if you know it's not a good bonus piece.  This way you've still got a chance of getting something random.

And I think the only question I had as far as gameplay goes is can you play meeple on the gift map land tiles when you place them?

[meepleater]

Keep in mind that I've never really seen LotR, and I've not played with your first LotR expansion.

Has anyone?  

The quest tiles sound cool.  Although limiting where they go sounds like you'd very rarely find tiles that would actually place.  it'd probably be better if they were surrounded by walls that could be placed anywhere like the black tower map tile or the Abbey, or even having one or two of those walls would be cool.  Hmm...That just gave me a new idea for another expansion.

Also, there's no bonus for placing quest tiles.  If the quest tiles are more likely to be harder to place, it seems like you should get an extra point or two for placing one.

I don't want them to be too easy to place, because some of them provide massive advantages (e.g. Rivendell from Lotr1 would be 27 points if you could finish the cloister), so it shouldn't matter to much if some can't be played. In a way, the tile itself is worth the placement difficulty.

As for the gift/map tiles, that's a pretty cool idea as well.  My only concern is that looking at the bonus/flaw stats, it does not make me want to earn those pieces because too many of them are too negative.  I'm seeing two tiles, maybe three, that I'd like to have, but if another player gets them first, then I wouldn't want to try to go for them anymore.  Upon which, I'd suggest maybe making 8 more gifts(2 of each type), otherwise if two road gifts are gone, then you'll know which one is left and you may not want it if you know it's not a good bonus piece.  This way you've still got a chance of getting something random.

Okay, I might add another map or two of all-positive things.

And I think the only question I had as far as gameplay goes is can you play meeple on the gift map land tiles when you place them?

No, but the fairy/ tower piece can be played. I'll add that to the rules.

[Gwommy]

And I think the only question I had as far as gameplay goes is can you play meeple on the gift map land tiles when you place them?

No, but the fairy/ tower piece can be played. I'll add that to the rules.

I guess that also brings up the question as to whether you can use magic portal to place a meeple on any unclaimed feature on that tile as well?

[meepleater]

I was fordighted and added that to the rules at the same time as before (and also the CoC)

[meepleater]

As I promised:

http://www.mediafire.com/?oa0tldnlljl

And the new maps:

[meepleater]

No comments anyone?

[elmendalerenda]

Hi, sorry but I´m having some hard time understanding the maps rules, let me see if I got it right:

To get the corner there has to be a line of 5 tiles orthogonally. Do this tiles need to share the same feature than in the gift-tile map? or any configuration will work as long as they are orthogonal and interrupted for that side? For this 5 tiles line, do the gift-tile map counts itself?

Which player draws the map corner? the one who places the fifth tile orthogonally with the map tile? or the one who originally placed the map tile?

Once you get a corner of the map, the bonus apply to all those features, no matter where you place them?

I know that you cant have two maps of the same feature, bu if you draw a really bad corner like -3 point per cloister/shrine, can you try to draw a new map from that type to change it for the previous one?

Also if you draw the -7 points corner, I think nobody will try to complete the map voluntary. Or at the end of the game the center of the map is scored, even if not completed? this way players with negative corners would be forced to get more corners.

Sorry again for asking so much, but want to get this right. I know that for the creator everything makes perfect sense, but for the rest of the people things cant be so clear.

[meepleater]

Answers bolded.

Hi, sorry but I´m having some hard time understanding the maps rules, let me see if I got it right:

To get the corner there has to be a line of 5 tiles orthogonally. Do this tiles need to share the same feature than in the gift-tile map?
No, any five (or more) tiles

 or any configuration will work as long as they are orthogonal and interrupted for that side?
Yes, but I don't know what you mean by interrupted- there can be five or more tiles, but there can be no gaps between the first five.

 For this 5 tiles line, do the gift-tile map counts itself?
No

Which player draws the map corner? the one who places the fifth tile orthogonally with the map tile? or the one who originally placed the map tile?
The person who placed the fifth tile (although, if the gift tile already has five tiles on one side when the tile is placed, then the person who placed the gift tile gets that corner.

Once you get a corner of the map, the bonus apply to all those features, no matter where you place them?
Yes, it applies to all of that particular feature.

I know that you cant have two maps of the same feature, bu if you draw a really bad corner like -3 point per cloister/shrine, can you try to draw a new map from that type to change it for the previous one?
No, you are stuck with it.

Also if you draw the -7 points corner, I think nobody will try to complete the map voluntary. Or at the end of the game the center of the map is scored, even if not completed?
No, only a complete map centre is scored. However, the average of all the centres is positive, so there would hopefully be numbers large enough to cancel out the seven, but that would depend on luck.
 this way players with negative corners would be forced to get more corners.

Sorry again for asking so much, but want to get this right. I know that for the creator everything makes perfect sense, but for the rest of the people things cant be so clear.

I'll try to add all of this into the next version of the rules. I'd also like to mention that the +0.5 follwer strength only applies once per feature, not per follower, which might be unclear. I'll add this also.

[elmendalerenda]

cool, that helps a lot.

Think I have it crystal clear now 

[Gwommy]

[meepleater]

I apologise for the delays getting to v0.3- I'm having a few... issues with Word. The top few cm seem to be chopped off the page when I make it a pdf- which I can't seem to fix. I'll keep trying.

[meepleater]

It seems to be fixed now; now open to more reviews, 0.3:

 http://www.mediafire.com/?mwymzlhj0jm

[Novelty]

Comments (and I'm trying to be concise, but I think I've failed ):

1. Please do remember to include the bee trade good token with the tiles - you'll also need to include that in the description of the extra pieces and the preparation.  Credit also needs to be given to wellidesigns for the image on those tiles.
2. Fangorn's acorns - do they give the bonus points when the forest is scored?
3. Suggested that a picture of a tower piece be used on the gift tower tile instead of the tower foundation so that it isn't too confusing.
4. Could you explain "orthogonal" in a footnote the first time it is used?  Non-english (or people who do not speak English as a first langugage) speakers might not be able to understand that.
5. To avoid confusion, it might be best to indicate/label all fan-made expansions as such with the prefix "fan-made" (e.g. wells and lavender fields under the Ithilien description doesn't have this adjective)