Carcassonne: Barbarian Horde

[JPutt927]

Here comes another expansion of mine... this one has been in development for a few weeks now. It's required a lot of thought...but I finally managed to get it to where I wanted it! It's my first venture into an expansion featuring extra meeples. This one is pretty involved. So, with that said...here's the various pieces...there's quite a bit.

Carcassonne: Barbarian Hoard rules - http://www.mediafire.com/?mxxiyimtjjy
Besieged City of Carcassonne tile -  http://www.mediafire.com/?zdluqw4giwy
Barbarian hoard tiles and defense tiles - http://www.mediafire.com/?ummmkvtczzm
Barbarian movement tiles and coloured tokens - http://www.mediafire.com/?vijo22hyv3n
Barbarian Hoard reference cards - http://www.mediafire.com/?anmwhrjtzai
Barbarian reward cards #1 - http://www.mediafire.com/?q2onytry1wd
Barbarian reward cards #2 - http://www.mediafire.com/?eqcaldn4j2z
Reward card backings - http://www.mediafire.com/?ykwwgkzxzwt

and as usual...a picture...or two!

[Whaleyland]

Overall, I like it. It definitely adds a new idea with the roaming Barbarians. In reality, this is a full and complex expansion idea. I do have a few concerns and questions, though, as per usual.

1. Why does this expansion require use of the City of Carcassonne (even as an optional component)? Why can't there be some simpler way of introducing the Barbarians, like having them start on the first tile that is drawn with a Barbarian symbol? Or, better yet, have a small compass tile that is introduced when the first barbarian arrives. Just a suggestion.

2. Simplify the whole rules document down some. Use more images if possible (you use a lot, but it could still use more) and try to break down the rules to their core components without all the additional explanations. Place rule changes regarding expansions as footnotes in their own section rather than including them in-text with the standard rules.

3. Why Barbarians? I mean, obviously it is the German-game standard name for "roaming evil-doers" but this game is about Carcassonne and that region has had plenty of invaders throughout the centuries from pillaging Roman and Holy Roman Emperors, to invading Moors, to barbarian Visigoths, and optimistic Byzantines. Barbarians is a standard name and it works, but it removes some of the historical focus that Carcassonne loosely tries to utilize. Perhaps include the name of the barbarians in the background story if nowhere else.

4. You don't describe the range of the Swordsman and Archer in the rules, only in pictures and captions. Keep it brief, but mention the range in text as well as image.

5. After the barbarians are defeated, they can become basically a Big Meeple with a disc under them, right? That's how I was reading it. Don't explain it that way, but I think I got lost in the explanation and missed the point.

I think that's it. Overall, it is a very creative and fun-looking expansion with lots of options. Just remember to keep them simple. Footnotes, for annotations, are a wonderful tool to keep the rules simple but include FAQs in case they are needed. Cheers!

[Bubbasco]

I think this expansion looks great! As usual, I will start making the tiles as soon as I can....

I thought the instructions were fine. I was able to clearly understand the movement of the Swordsman and Archer and such. I don't see a problem with it, but I'm not an "expert" like some people on this website. Plus I don't see why Barbarians are an issue, I like the name. It doesn't matter anyways, since the author chose Barbarians. It really is up to them anyways, since it is their creation. That is my opinion on the rules anyway, since everyone else voices theirs.

[JPutt927]

Alright, to address a few comments...

1. The reason the City is there, is so the Barbarians will start in a spot that is more centrally located. It was play tested a few times...it's necessary. You're more than welcome to create a variation of your own.

2. In my honest opinion, the rules are as simplified as they're going to get. It's a complicated expansion, I wasn't adding information and detail for the sake of adding information. Besides, without all the additional explanations...there's likely to be a swarm of questions that people will demand get answered and added to the rules later. None of my expansion rules have included footnotes and/or Q&A's up to this point. That's just not the way I prefer to do it.

3. Why not Barbarians? If everyone has a preference as to a specific name they should be called...I'll mention it in the story.

4. The ranges are described in both the written area and the pictures...

5. They become as such only if the reward allows them to. And yes, that's exactly what they become. If it needs further clarification, I'll work on it.

Finally, I feel as if the rules are relatively straightfoward, there's just a lot of components to it. There's no way around that. That's the way I intended this expansion to be. If everyone else firmly believes that this is way too complicated, I'll think about making some modifications. I'd like to hear what everyone else has to say...

[Whaleyland]

That is my opinion on the rules anyway, since everyone else voices theirs.

It's called "constructive criticism" and it is essential to a well-made/written anything in life. If only more news agencies would actually listen to it sometimes...::sigh::

[CKorfmann]

You are correct Governor, constructive criticism is a good thing.  You have to think of it like pruning, or purifying metal.  Sometimes it hurts, but that doesn't make it less helpful, unless it becomes demeaning, which you have obviously not done. 

[JPutt927]

What may come across as "constructive criticism" to one, may not be perceived as quite as "friendly" by another. With that said, let's get back to the topic at hand. Anyone else have any thoughts on this expansion?

*Edit*

1. Why does this expansion require use of the City of Carcassonne (even as an optional component)? Why can't there be some simpler way of introducing the Barbarians, like having them start on the first tile that is drawn with a Barbarian symbol? Or, better yet, have a small compass tile that is introduced when the first barbarian arrives. Just a suggestion.

1. The reason the City is there, is so the Barbarians will start in a spot that is more centrally located.

To further elaborate on this...
The Barbarians are bad. When they arrive, it's likely that all players will suffer. For that reason, if they were deployed from the tiles featuring the Barbarian icons themselves, players would likely place them in a very remote, hard to escape area of the map.  This causes extreme problems upon movement of the Barbarians.  By placing them in the City, an area that players are forced to build around, this problem is alleviated.  If the Barbarians are causing more havoc, I found this better. It causes more player cooperation, which was an aspect I was strongly trying to introduce with this expansion.

[The Missionary]

Great idea. I would like to see more expansions promote player cooperation. I think it makes the game more complex: I help you, it helps me; I help you too much I lose. I enjoy trying to find the right balance.

[Gwommy]

This is quite the expansion.  I  think it'd be interesting to see how it plays.  Here's an edit for the rules:

==Introduction
"The Barbarian hoard has declared war on Carcassonne"
-"Barbarian hoard" should probably be lower cased.

==Extra Pieces
"7 new barbarian tiles, 1 large fortress tile, 6 barbarian tiles"
-Since the CoC tile is labeled separately, the large fortress should be listed separately as well.

"15 barbarian defence tiles, 8 pits, 2 catapults, 2 archery towers, 2 swordsmen, 1 archer"
-The breakdown of the tiles should be in parenthesis, others it looks like you need 30 pieces instead of only 15.

==Preperation
-I think the first paragraph should be listed under the "Additional Rules" heading.
-Also, should there be a mention of playing with the base game of Carcassonne rather than *only* CoC?

==Barbarian Attack
"the City of Carcassonne will come is considered under attack."
"If playing with using the Count of Carcassonne expansion rules,"
"All normal functions of the City of Carcassonne will be are suspended until all Barbarians have been eliminated from the game."

==Barbarian Impact
"If a Barbarian ever encounters a player’s follower during it’s movement,"
-"It's" should be "its".

==Catapults
"(though it can be deployed to a tile within it’s range of defence)."
-"It's" should be "its".

"Unlike the pit trap, the catapult will remain in on the board"

"If any Barbarian encounters any of these 5 tiles during it’s movement,"
-"It's" should be "its".

==Archer
-There are two instances where "it's" should be changed to "its".

==Eliminating the Barbarians
"The Barbarians are considered completely eliminated as soon as there are no Barbarian pawns deployed to onthe map."

==Rewards
"Once completed, the Barbarian is returned to the green player for further use."
-Returned to the green player's supply?  Also, once you own a Barbarian, does it act exactly like a large follower?

==Fortress
-There are two headings labeled as "Fortress", perhaps they should be combined?

[djdahmer]

Should this be called the "Barbarian Horde"? A horde is an army or tribe of nomadic warriors, whereas a hoard is a store of money or treasure.  A marauding barbarian hoard does conjure up some interesting imagery though

[loganmann1]

Should this be called the "Barbarian Horde"? A horde is an army or tribe of nomadic warriors, whereas a hoard is a store of money or treasure.  A marauding barbarian hoard does conjure up some interesting imagery though

That is a great image! 

[JPutt927]

Just as I am doing with my "By Order of the King" expansion, I'm hoping to finally get this one posted to the downloads section. I've updated the rules section with some of Gwommy's suggestions. I've also changed all my graphics to depict the correct spelling of "Horde". All the above links have been changed accordingly. As far as I'm concerned, this one is finished!

[Novelty]

It's now on downloads.  After all this time!  Yay!  Merit point given!

[Dave]

Has anyone any ideas about how towers might interact with the Horde?

apologies if this has been covered, (I confess I didn't look)

I played with the horde last night (didn't play towers) and it does play well and we didn't manage to wipe them out, they captured half of reds meeples and one of black's. we never ransommed them back as we kept hoping that last barbarian would get snuffed and we'd get them back for free, but he kept going till his mates arrived.

anyway, the idea

If a barbarian came within range of a tower and on my turn I used a tower piece, I could "capture" the barbarian. this would

a) remove him from the map and either send him back to "his supply" in the city of carcassonne or at the side of the board to come on again next invasion. my first thought would be the city, to maintain the invasion force.
b) force a prisoner exchange if they had captured one of mine, or award me 3 points if they hadn't.

thoughts?