Carcassonne Central

Oh man, I had a great idea on the drive home today. I don't know if this is original or not so if anyone recognizes this mechanic from some other CC contributor please speak up. It feels original...that is, I don't remember reading it anywhere in any case.

This outline is very generic. I haven't put together any details but I wanted to bounce the idea off the group first.

Father Time
You make up 3 new tiles with matching icon - something with a "time" theme. Actually, not sure if this should be 3 tiles or 4 tiles. I think some play testing would be in order to understand how it would play.
You make up 6 additional new tiles with matching icon - perhaps differing from the above icon but still with some sort of "time" theme.

All 9 of these can have playable features, or they may simply be markers that might be set to the side of the board when drawn.

Shuffle the first of the 3 tiles in with the regular tiles. Once it is drawn shuffle the other 2 into the mix. Once the third tile is drawn the 6 tiles are mixed in. Once the third of these is drawn the game ends. The concept is of escalating urgency for scoring and positioning yourself for potential end game at any moment. Some level of suspense and anticipation.

I haven't decided if there should be scoring attached to the tiles in some way. I don't think it would be necessary.

We are playing tomorrow night. I am going to try to introduce this with some dummy tiles. We draw from a bag so it will be easy to pull off.

What does everyone think? Comments? Has it been done by someone? Do you think it would accomplish what I think it will?

It could be interesting.  Would probably take several tests to get a feel for it.  I'll look forward to your reviews.

This is a really great idea.  That would indeed add suspense to the game, much like that usual sinking feeling when the draw bag gets increasingly empty.  I like the idea of markers instead of playable features on the tiles, as this may be easier to keep track of.

I was thinking of an alternative using a similar mechanic that would be player specific.  You could call it Three Strikes.  Three tiles in each of the player's colours could be added to the mix of tiles.  Each time a player's colour is drawn by anyone, that player has to give up a meeple!  This would certainly add a lot of (bad?) luck to a game, as players may or may not be hampered with meeple management issues early in the game (rather harsh).  Once the last player has their third coloured tile selected, the game could end.

CARC_Zoner

I like the idea of an unknown ending.  You'll know when the odds are high, but not for sure when it will happen.

But, may I ask what the reasoning is behind the steps of progressively adding the tiles with different icons and why 9 total?  Why not just six tiles and when the sixth is gone its over?  Sorry if this is blaringly obvious to others.  I'm a little slow.

My thought was escalation of suspense and a marked progression. With 9 tiles in the mix from the start, the likelihood that the first tile will be drawn, say in the first 9th of the tiles is high. Starting with just one should be more random for when the clock starts ticking, so to speak. Then when you add the two, there will be a higher concentration of time tiles (less tiles by then with two time tiles in the mix). This will create an escalation of anticipation. Then when you add the six to draw three it will be even more concentrated. You might be on the edge of your seat...trying to get that city completed, or find just the right tile to join a farm, and so on.

I think it will feel different, more suspenseful, than just a random 9 tiles in the mix. Maybe I'm wrong. We're going to try it tonight so we'll see.

Does anyone have any "time" themed graphics I could use? Like a Sun dial or an Hour glass?
Not sure what a medieval calendar would look like. Anything illustrating seasonal changes?

Instead of each player color, have the original tile adding to the draw pile mechanic from carcking123 but whoever draws a time tile gives up a meeple. the game ends if the third tile of the additional six time tiles or if one player loses his or her third meeple. it could vary depending on number of players like in a two player game the first time tile doesn't lose a meeple only the time tiles added to drawpile thereafter. i guess that would work well in more than 2 player games, but either way it adds the (bad) luck factor but limits the bad without limiting the luck.

I like the idea of the unknown ending. I would think that the number used should vary depending on the number of total tiles that you're using.

I don't exactly like the idea of the person who draws the tile to lose a follower. If anyone should lose a follower, it should be the player with the most points so that it gives the players who are behind a chance to catch up.

As for the tiles, I'm visualizing a giant sundial in the middle of the tile, but the rest of the tile is normal, with cities or roads that wind around the sundial, and they can be played as normal. The game still ends when 3 (or whatever number) of them are drawn.

Or if you want to take it a step further and combine everything previously mentioned, whoever draws the sundial tile may place it as normal, and either place a follower on it or instead choose to have the player with the most points place a follower on the sundial, not to be used for the rest of the game. Although, I'd allow the follower to be removed with the Wheel of Fortune.

We played this on Friday night - and really enjoyed it. It definitely added a new dynamic because of the anticipation and anxiety of running out of time to accomplish what you want. It replaces the comfort or complacency born of knowing you've got enough time remaining with a sense of urgency and a pressing need for decision making. You may know the tile you need is in there...but the gamble is you may not get to it in time.

With perhaps 20% of the tiles remaining we were playing like it was the last round or something. Competitions for the big city and the big farm were fierce. It got a couple of our group, who normally play fairly laid back games, to get up on the edge of their seats. It was fun to watch.

What I did for dummy tiles: I have an extra set of A&M so I used three Abbey tiles as the first phase markers. I used the six 50/100 markers for the second phase. We mixed in the first Abbey tile. That was actually drawn earlier than I expected. Before we were 1/3 through it was drawn and then we put in the other two. We were just past half way I estimated when we put in the 6. When the first of those was drawn it got really animated. We played a game of around 150 tiles.

I included the first play test of the Catapult Catch, which went over very well too.

What came of it: We didn't care for the notion of automatically loosing a follower. They seem scarce at times as it is. What we did come up with though is the player who draws the tile may give it to any player they wish. That player must place it in front of him and enter a follower on the tile as a "Time Keeper", or some such title. I haven't thought it through completely yet but I'm working on it.

Also, I have an idea for some sort of a rewind or fast forward feature that I'm working on.


Gwommy, great minds...we came up with the same sort of idea for trapping a follower instead of removing from the game. I have a different idea than the WOF though.

Not sure I like the idea of the tile having playable features. It could be just a marker.

I am working on a Rules layout with the CC template.

Keep the ideas coming!

or the play places the tile in front of them places a timekeeper on it which returns the previous timekeeper, if any, to its owners supply. at the end of the game the player with the timekeeper gets bonus points. points could be either a set amount, like T&B, or based on number of tiles divided by the product of the # of players and # of expansions. i think the latter might be better in the long run. but you can't timekeeper the last time tile. this way u risk one less meeple for a portion of the game but can get points in the end.

Good ideas - the "release" function would work.

Maybe the scoring could be a function of the # of tiles remaining undrawn. And maybe only if the Timekeeper is the one to end the game.

also, maybe, after you draw the 1st of the 6 tiles (I'm thinking of calling these 6 tiles the Eleventh Hour tiles), and that player becomes the Timekeeper, if he should draw the 2nd one the games ends. So after the first one is pulled the game could end on any round on that player's turn.

Make that three of us. I thought of a similar idea in my Carcassonne: Labyrinth fan expansion of a player 'sacrificing' a meeple in order to earn the right to make a powerful move on the board (switching followers).

CARC_Zoner

I also like this idea. Depending on weather you want to use features on the time tiles or not, you could easily play-test this with blank tiles by putting just a range of numbers from 1-6 or 1-9 on it.
I do prefer the timekeeper mechanic with the meeple blocking though. And then releasing it again when another player draws another timekeeper card.

1 thing that came to my mind when a current timekeeper draws a 2nd timekeeper card in a row would be to reward him in some way. Maybe giving him points as high as the amount of the remaining timekeeper cards in the drawing bag.

Allthough .... as the chance to draw 2 timekeepers in a row becomes more difficult when time passes .... maybe the reward should be the other way around. Giving the timekeeper an amount of points as high as already drawn timekeeper cards. The last drawn card included.

Ok, here it is. I really looking forward to your review, comments and suggestions.

I could use help creating the tiles. I'm a cut and paste guy - I don't have good creation software.

Father Time
Carcassonne wasn’t built in a day but Father Time has a way of
collapsing the centuries down to hours and the decades into minutes. The
Farmer toils away the day while the Monk and the Knight go about their daily schedules. The Thief knows his opportunities lie beyond twilight, and shuns the sun. They are all ever mindful of the shifting sands of the hour glass…and the looming shadow of the Eleventh Hour. Time will take its toll.

Overview
The randomly drawn time marker tiles document the course of a common day in Carcassonne. The mechanism creates an escalated ending to the game with a building sense of urgency. Players become Timekeepers when the time tiles are drawn and Followers are trapped in periods of time. There is bonus scoring for Farmers, Monks, Knights and Thieves, and a potential for scoring for the Timekeeper. But beware the final draw.

Here is the link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?21c3at57oafrj

Well done gents.  The surprise ending could make things really interesting.  Looking forward to seeing what you come up with for tiles.  You can take my name out of the acknowledgements.  I didn't really contribute anything to this one.

I've gone back and forth with the ending. I've decided I don't like the idea of penalizing the player who's been trapped in time. I went back to penalizing the player who draws the third eleventh hour tile to end the game. This will be more of a surprise ending.

My concern is though, that in extreme cases this could end up being a lot of points. The tiles could be drawn very early in the game and that penalty could be ridiculous...game breaking even. It may be better to temper it or cap it somehow.

Any thoughts?

I uploaded the revised rules which puts the penalty on the player who draws the last tile.

How about the player who draws the last eleventh hour tile loses a set number of points per unused follower, by unused follower I mean any follower not used as a knight, monk, or thief.

Carcking,

Really nice set up description! It adds a lot to the expansion!

I'm looking forward to the tiles.

CARC_Zoner

aeoliner,
I used your idea of using followers and kept with the theme of the Thief stealing after twilight and came up with a revised game ending. I uploaded the revision. Check it out and let me know what you think.

CARC_Zoner,
Thanks. I personally like to see some context also. It enhances the game.

Ok, here is my interpretation of the Father Time tiles. These are cut and paste so the quality is not the greatest.

The Daily Grind tile.
The Eleventh Hour tile.
The recommended tile back. I found this great image depicting Father Time with some female character trapped - presumably, in time. I thought it was very appropriate for the theme of the expansion.

Really looking forward to comments and suggestions!

Thanks for all the help!

Here is the link for the Rules and Tile Sheets:
http://www.mediafire.com/?rfsh5y45i2eii

I do like the idea of penalizing the last player based on the number of other thieves in play, however my personal tactic when end game is near is to have no left over meeples in order to maximize my points which is why i said to penalize based on the tactic of the game could end at any moment so deploy all meeples!!

But I do think that thieves needed to be incorporated into scoring which you did do great so maybe that penalty is better than mine in the long run. I would create a unique crack of dawn tile, maybe sunrise at dawn over a field or something, to distinguish it from the other daily grind tiles.

Finally, great job.

Thanks aeoliner. Thank you for the merit point!
I like the idea of a unique Crack of Dawn tile too. If anyone has any good examples of a graphic let me know.

I uploaded the latest rules. I added the Rewind feature and the new tile graphics.

http://www.mediafire.com/?rfsh5y45i2eii

Unless we come up with something for the crack of dawn tile I am considering this complete.

I would enjoy hearing anyone's play test report so let me know.

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPYdVGF3t_ai3qba_RXSWXZg17l2BANFgZ9TJiS6jIeOLqKBum)
how is this for crack of dawn

How about this.

Father Time - Crack of Dawn tile

Father Time - High Noon and Twilight tiles

Father Time - Fast Forward tile

I like it!

I uploaded the latest (and final) tile sheets and rules (version 0_7).

Here is the link:

http://www.mediafire.com/?rfsh5y45i2eii


Happy playing!

We got to play-test this again this weekend...and stumbled upon something, which necessitated being addressed in the rules.

We drew the Crack of Dawn tile about 10 tiles in. It was really surprising. We were all thinking it was going to be a much shortened game. We drew High Noon about half way through. Then we went almost to the end of the bag before we drew Twilight. There were less than 10 tiles left. I really thought we were going to draw it as the last tile. When we added the Eleventh Hour tiles there was no doubt the game was coming to a close very quickly...it occurred to me that this needed to be addressed in the rules. It also made me consider a scenario where maybe the only tiles left to draw are the Eleventh Hour tiles.

I added some notes to address these scenarios and REV'd the rules to 0_8. Let me know if you think I covered these scenarios sufficiently. Based on what we saw it should.

Also, I remade some of the tiles. I wasn't quite happy with them as they were and I like these alot better.

Here is the link for the rules and revised tile sheets.

http://www.mediafire.com/?rfsh5y45i2eii

Fast Forward tile.

I like these tiles better too.  This seems really interesting, I'd like to try it sometime.

Has anyone had a chance to try this?

I'd love to hear some feedback.

After several play tests we have rounded out the rules. I consider this revison 0.9 to be complete.


You can find revision 0.9 and the revised tile sheets here in the Father Time folder:

http://www.mediafire.com/?rfsh5y45i2eii


I included a use for dead time tiles - they can be used as fare for time travel. Also, they have value at game end.

I updated/revised the tile graphics and added some instruction text on the tile backs.

I hope you enjoy. I'd love to hear some feedback.

Added to public downloads and the forum downloads area.

Scott, thank you for this but I am working on a final revised version 1_0. I was not satisfied with some of the mechanics in 0_9 and we have done much more play testing to develop this new final version. I would prefer the pending version 1_0 be the one loaded to the forum downloads. Can you suspend or remove the 0_9?
Thanks. Sorry for the inconvenience.  ::)

The version 1_0, along with the tile sheets front and back are ready at this link.

http://www.mediafire.com/?21c3at57oafrj

Enjoy!

Updated to latest version, and I made you the owner of the download so you can make edits in future.