Carcassonne - Das Schicksalsrad NEW

[mjharper]

So it looks like they borrowed 9 tiles from three of the first four expansions (no River tiles). In so doing, they didn't change the number of Pennants at all, but they did add one Cloister from I&C. They also removed the Inn from one of the tiles. To achieve this replacement, they mostly reduced the number of high-volume tiles from the base game and did that by replacing them with similar tiles (ie FRFR w/Cloister for FRFR from base game) or providing more complicated road tiles to reduce field size. A smart move all around, since the base game always suffered from oversize fields. It seems HiG did their homework and wisely left the newer expansion (post-T&B) tiles untouched.

The Wheel tile itself provides an element of probable unknown circumstances. Without even playing, I have formulated some questions that Matthew needs to send to HiG since I doubt they are answered in the included rules:
1. Three roads venture behind the wheel, so are they ended? or do they connect?
2. Since the tiles are clearly outlined on the Wheel tile, can Magic Portals transport followers to a Wheel tile?
3. Can the Dragon cross the visible wheel tiles?
4. Does the Wheel count for any points as a landscape feature?
5. Are the three fields on the Wheel tile connected or separate?

Ah, you've got to love the need for an annotated rules document.

Nice work there! I agree, they've made a nice job of something which could have been really poor.

Good questions too. The rules (full translation coming soon) do say that the surrounding segments of the wheel are scored in the usual way. I take that to mean that the roads end when they reach the wheel, and there are three separate farms.

Thank you Matt.  That pig looks to be porking the pink pig...

Indeed Worth noticing (if it comes out at all in the photo) that the new pig is not just an oversized version of the old pig. It has a bit more throat, and it's rump is a little more, er, saggy.

Matt, does the book contain any coloured illustration besides that shown on the cover?  I know the expansion is barely a day old, but custom expansion makers like me probably already have their devious designs ready for the bits and bobs in the expansion :hehe:

No colour pix. But there are a couple of maps - the region around Carcassonne, and a slightly more detailed map of the city itself, along with some history and info about famous people. I might see if I can scan some of this without ruining the book.

[Whaleyland]

Okay, Jay just got back to me, much quicker than I expected. His replies were very brief and undetailed, and rather uninformed, but whatever, he did answer the major question:

Will RGG be releasing this expansion: Yes!
When is the timeframe for release: In 2-3 months time.
Will it be the same as the HiG version: Identical (although, he didn't mention the book).

The one weird thing is that Jay didn't seem to know that it replaces the base game. He corrected me twice, stating it is just an expansion, so either he hasn't seen it, or HiG has been telling him misinformation. Either way, it seems that the release will be sometime in the Autumn. Yay!

[Novelty]

Thanks for the update Whaley.  I do hope we'll get an English version this year (without the book!) and I'd much prefer being able to buy it in my FLGS than online (where shipping charges will probably inflate the price to double of what I'll be paying at my FLGS).  Did Jay say he'll be renaming it, or adding anything new, or...?

[mjharper]

The one weird thing is that Jay didn't seem to know that it replaces the base game. He corrected me twice, stating it is just an expansion, so either he hasn't seen it, or HiG has been telling him misinformation.

That's not quite fair, either to Jay or to HiG It is an expansion, but it is also a stand alone-game: that is, it can be used either as a replacement for the basic game, or an addition to it. That's a tricky concept to describe... I think the onus is more on HiG to explain it correctly though, which they haven't quite managed to do. In that thread discussed above they stated surprise that it was listed as an expansion - but that's what it is. Only it's also more at the same time.

I'm sure that Jay is planning to release the game, but we won't know what form it will take until he has had time to figure out exactly what to do with it.

[Whaleyland]

Did Jay say he'll be renaming it, or adding anything new, or...?

No, he was actually very brief and unhelpful. He answered my questions, but said very little more, as if he was busy and had more important things to do than indulge a loyal Carcassonne fan. But that's not the first time Jay has brushed me off. Let me give you the exact email reply he gave me:

Does Rio Grande Games plan to release a copy of this expansion/replacement base game?
yes - it does not replace the base game

If so, and we all hope you do, what is the time-frame for release?
2-3 month

Will you keep the expansion as is, or will it be reduced to just an expansion, and not a replacement base game?
Again, it does not replace the base game - I will produce it just as Hans Im Glück has, except in English.

Thank you for your reply. I know everyone at Carcassonne Central is looking forward to Rio Grande's thoughts on the expansion. -Derek Whaley i.e. Whaleyland

Thanks for your interest.
Jay

So, Jay himself seems to not entirely know what's going on. I guess since HiG doesn't even have a page about it on their website, the release may have taken him by surprise. But Carcassonne always releases an expansion around this time of year, so he should have been expecting it. The fact that he denies it is a replacement for the base game twice makes me think he hasn't actually looked into the issue thoroughly. Just my thoughts. I am not sure if sending him a second email at this time would be very effective, but anyone else can try. We all are looking for answers that satisfy us. Maybe if someone mentioned that it includes 72 tiles, it would wake him up?

[Novelty]

I think an email at this point of time will probably be unhelpful.  I'm not sure he has all the details from HiG yet.  When he does get that, he'll have to decide what works for him and how he is to market it (as is, but in English? something different as in C,S&C? something else?).  I think we should give him time rather than bombard him with more details.

Who we should bombard is mjharper to update the CAR with the new expansion!!!

[mjharper]

I think an email at this point of time will probably be unhelpful.  I'm not sure he has all the details from HiG yet.  When he does get that, he'll have to decide what works for him and how he is to market it (as is, but in English? something different as in C,S&C? something else?).  I think we should give him time rather than bombard him with more details.

Agreed.

Who we should bombard is mjharper to update the CAR with the new expansion!!!

What do you think I'm working on right now?

[Wishmaster]

From everything MJ has shown and told us (good stuff too), I would be happy for Rio G to produce it as an expansion set with just the wheel and pig, or complete. It's not too difficult to grasp in concept as a stand alone game that's also an expansion - The new 'Dominion - Intrigue' works in the same way, however there seems to be a bit more imagination shown in that, far more new stuff and just a few duplicated parts.

Why doesn't anyone want the book? I'd love it to be translated into English - Anyone know if the authors other books have English versions?

[Novelty]

What do you think I'm working on right now?

Please don't tell me you're still working on your thesis!  I thought that was over and done with ages ago

Looking through the tile list, not all the "wheel" tiles are on a single sheet - they are spread out over the 6 sheets.  So it might be a bit difficult for Jay to make a "wheel" only expansion (it'd be much easier to use the same sheets as HiG and to print all the tiles).  We shall have to wait and see what RGG does.

[mjharper]

Anyone know if the authors other books have English versions?

Not that I can see from amazon.com or co.uk.

What do you think I'm working on right now?

Please don't tell me you're still working on your thesis!  I thought that was over and done with ages ago

I meant I was working on the CAR :

[Novelty]

I meant I was working on the CAR :

LOL, I get that, hence the winkie!

I won't want the book because it'll just add to the cost of the expansion.  I'm not sure I'd like a medieval novel (Whaley might, but it's not my cup of tea).  I'd rather be able to buy the book separately in my local Borders than with my boardgames.

[Whaleyland]

I won't want the book because it'll just add to the cost of the expansion.  I'm not sure I'd like a medieval novel (Whaley might, but it's not my cup of tea).  I'd rather be able to buy the book separately in my local Borders than with my boardgames.

I like how no matter where I am in the world and who I am talking to, I always become "Whaley". Weird. I mean, it is my last name, but still, I don't call most of my friends by their last name...or do I? Anywho, indeed it is my cup of tea and I wish that they would translate the novel into English, but considering the precedent—The Settlers of Catan Novel—I don't see it as likely. I too would prefer to buy a cheaper version in a bookstore, although Borders is rarely the cheapest bookstore in my neck of the woods. I generally buy from Amazon.com Marketplace, where the real deals are made. In fact, I think I bought Abbey & Mayor new from a Marketplace vendor. That all being said, when WILL they translate that stupid Catan novel?! I have been waiting like 13 years for it, or at least four, since I began playing Catan.

[Whaleyland]

I meant I was working on the CAR :

Speaking of which, I assume you are adding the new components of this expansion into the CAR, please release the translation and first-draft notes as soon as you've got a draft for us to read. The last CAR draft states its dated from January. I think it's time to see what seven months have added to it. Also, where should we start the FAQ list for the new expansion? Here or on the forum for the CAR? I'm not sure if that has gotten too crowded for more FAQs or not.

[mjharper]

Speaking of which, I assume you are adding the new components of this expansion into the CAR, please release the translation and first-draft notes as soon as you've got a draft for us to read.

I'll definitely post something here as soon as I have it. There will be quite a lot of changes because of this expansion, as there are a lot of new tiles to account for in the Tile Reference, and several things to add to the glossary. And I'll probably have to rework the scoring overview completely as well. Quite a lot to do.

The last CAR draft states its dated from January. I think it's time to see what seven months have added to it.

Well, at the moment I'm going through the pages of corrections hester sent to me ages ago, because I should do that before adding too much new content which will screw up the page order. That's mostly stuff from the glossary, which was the newest addition in any case. After that I'll add the new material for the Wheel of Fate - at which point I'll post a new beta - and then we'll have to get the FAQ sorted out. There was already a list to send the HiG and we'll have to add the new FAQ to that.

Also, where should we start the FAQ list for the new expansion? Here or on the forum for the CAR? I'm not sure if that has gotten too crowded for more FAQs or not.

Yeah, FAQs for the new expansion should go in a dedicated thread. Makes it easier to keep track of.

To be honest, if there had been any significant progress in the last few months, I would have posted a new beta. I've just had other things on my mind of late. But the semester ended today and I'm using the new expansion - a worthy one, after the disappointment of the Catapult - to spur me to action

EDIT: It tells you something about how out of sorts I've been that I realised today there was already a beta 5 - based on changes I'd made on 20 January (!) Oh well. I guess I didn't expect to get so badly side-tracked. Anyway, the new beta will be #6...

[Scott]

I'm also interested in an English translation of the book. Don't particularly care if it's bundled with the game or sold separately.

I wonder what the legalities are of translating books to English. Can the translations be freely distributed?