Sheep & Shepherds

[CKorfmann]

The only major thing I'd change is the phrase "eaten by the dragon" to "removed by the dragon".

Agreed...  Yes, meepleater said he would help out with the graphics when he gets back from camp or wherever he went.  Thanks.

[JPutt927]

I personally think this sounds like a very enjoyable expansion. In regards to the rules, they sound good. The only part I might question...is the losing of 5 points for any lost sheep. I personally don't feel that a lost sheep should penalize a player as many points as they will gain for connecting with their sheep. This seems like it may stifle a player's willingness to attempt to place a sheep. A lost sheep should be worth negative points, but possibly a little less. Maybe 3? Again, this is just my personal feelings, and it is completely up to you to make the final call! Other than that, I think it's a very nice little expansion. It makes me wish I actually had the Shepherd and Sheep Meeples needed to play. Well done. 

[CKorfmann]

Thanks!  I kept that +/- 5 mechanic because that was in the rule set by the original authors.  I think their's was actually 6 points, but I changed both to 5.  I think the very first set of rules, according to that rule set, actually had players loosing points both for lost and unplayed sheep.  I see what you're saying and somewhat agree, but I think it prevents people from just throwing all their sheep out there without thinking about it.  Plus, I think I'd like to avoid straying from the original ruleset too much.  I've already changed a few.  You could certainly, very easily make it a house rule though.  I'll have to post the website where I bought the pieces when I can find it again.

[JPutt927]

Losing points for unplayed sheep?...that would've been bad! But you're right, I suppose it could just be a house rule. I hope you're able to find where you bought your pieces. I might have to get some of my own...

[Scott]

I've spotted two grammatical/spelling errors in the Final Scoring section:

"but not connected to that players shepherd are considered lost"
The word "players" should be possessive here: "player's shepherd"

"that player loses and additional 1 point"
The word "and" should be "an".

[CKorfmann]

Losing points for unplayed sheep?...that would've been bad! But you're right, I suppose it could just be a house rule. I hope you're able to find where you bought your pieces. I might have to get some of my own...

I have the site saved on my laptop.  I should be able to get it to you in a day or so.  I'll warn you though, sanding and painting all those little suckers is tedious!  Hopefully, it will be worth it.

I've spotted two grammatical/spelling errors in the Final Scoring section:

Noted, thanks!

[Whaleyland]

Ooh, I got support credit. I like the expansion and it seems very simple. I am running behind right now on playtesting fan expansions, but the only real problem I forsee is that people may not use the sheep if they feel it will lose them points. I think lost sheep should subtract less points than non-lost sheep gain. Or maybe the mere fact that they don't earn any points is enough. I never have been a fan of subtracting points and didn't even realize that the Tower allowed it until last week (to ransom a follower). That being said, I don't really have any other problems with it. The rules are relatively well written. The only problem there is that you don't mention the goal of the expansion until "3. Scoring" when you should probably mention it sooner. The rules could also use some pictures. A picture of the shepherd, an Agricola sheep, and a tile with sheep printed on them are minimums. Other than that, good job. I look forward to playing this...once I get my own Agricola animeeples and a second set of meeples from Wheel of Fate (I rather hope Jay does release the full German version here).

[CKorfmann]

I think lost sheep should subtract less points than non-lost sheep gain.

Well, I might agree, but I addressed this earlier.  I'm trying to keep this one close to the original rule set.  One could certainly change the scoring with house rules.  I might mention this in the rules since it seems to be a common remark.

A picture of the shepherd, an Agricola sheep, and a tile with sheep printed on them are minimums.

I do have plans for exactly those pictures.  Will be inserting them along with a scoring illustration soon.

Thanks for your input!

[CKorfmann]

Made the typo corrections.  Just waiting to finish up illustrations and photos.  For those few changes, I don't think I'll put up a new version until I add photos.  Not sure how to go about including pictures of the sheep and shepherd meeples.  I doubt their are illustrations of them. 

As for the meeples themselves, HERE is the website where I bought the sheep.  I got some pigs and cows too so I can eventually make Novelty's Dragon Hunter expansion. 

[meepleater]

Images:

Shepherd:


Sheep (mutated pig):


Placing the sheep:


Connecting the sheep to the shepherd:


The end of the game (1 sheep connected, 1 not connected):

[CKorfmann]

Wow, that sheep/pig image actually works very well!  It looks a lot better than I expected.  The illustrations do the job quite nicely.  Thanks!

Edit:
HERE is the updated rules document with the corrected typos and illustrations by meepleater.  I would really appreciate your comments!

I gave in to the masses and changed the negative points for lost sheep to 3 instead of 5.  I also made a minor adjustment to the Tower rules (captured sheep are dinner).  Just to further avoid confusion with farmers, what do you think about referring to these figures being placed in "fields" as opposed to being placed in "farms" as the current documents states?  I believe that Keven Grahame used the word "meadows" in his expansion.  

[Novelty]

This looks good.  Could you rev it up to 1.0 and PDF it so that I can put it on the Public Downloads?  Thanks!

[CKorfmann]

I can, but it might be a week or so before I can do it.  After the 11th, I'll have lots of free time for a while.

[CKorfmann]

Sorry for the double post, but before I put up the final rev, I had an idea...

What do you all think about using a regular meeple as the shepherd instead of having a special one?  Standing upright on a farm should be enough to differentiate them from the farmers.  This way, the Shepherd would be factored into follower management.  Any thoughts? 

[CKorfmann]

My wife and I gave this a playtest today.  It was a good game.  We played with base, I&C, A&M, River 1&2, Shrines, King, GQ11, Missionary, and Shepherds.  I won 380 to 219 thanks in large part to a 111 point city.  I also finished with the King and the Robber Baron (with the last tile), so that helped too.  I always seem to forget to score them!  I remembered at the last minute before I started picking up tiles.  Anyway...

I think like a lot of expansions, there is a different dynamic with only two players, but I was able to play and connect all five sheep with two of them on bonus tiles.  It was not easy and I had to devote a significant amount of effort to it.  I also got lucky with a few tiles.  My wife mananged to connect the three sheep she played also with two bonuses.  Overall, we both enjoyed playing with the Shepherds expansion.  We thought it helped to balance out the farms a bit since you were making farm/field efforts apart from your farmer, yet it could help your farm or someone else's at the same time.  I've decided to stick with the unique follower for the Shepherd.  It would be far too easy to prevent lost sheep with the option to use a regular follower.  I just have to make the shepherd meeples now (we used the tax collector).