The Catacombs

[Novelty]

Here's my second attempt - note, the image is very very draft - I wanted to see if it is worth continuing with the idea.  (Note, the difference between the attached image and the final product will probably be something like the difference between these two images: now and final.  Oh and for those who are wondering, the finished image with the background and stuff is here)

This just looks weird with the 2 different perspectives on the tile... and if it is placed upside down on the board next to another that's right side up, it's gonna just look funny IMO.  Sorry, there's no ripped up grass, but I was thinking about a translucent layer near the edges to show that the whole thing is underground - not easy to do, and it probably won't show up at the scale the image is at below...

Whaley, if this is not what you want, then I don't think I can do it.  If someone else wants to take over, I'll all for it

[Whaleyland]

No, that looks good. If you could put something like a casket or skulls on the ground or something deathy, that would finish the package. Keep up the good work (my internet is working again so I should be able to reply faster).

[Whaleyland]

If we're still sticking with passages and whatnot to attach these catacombs (which we probably should), I am thinking this should start as a 24 tile set. That way, there are about twice as many tiles as cloisters from the basic game (at least I believe that is so, I haven't really checked recently). Since these take up quite a bit of space on the tile, they probably shouldn't be too crowded. Here are my suggestions (skipping Rivers, Forests, and any other fan-made expansions):

First sheet (basic game tiles):
2 x CCFF (connected city)
2 x CCFF (two separate cities)
2 x FRFR (continuous road goes around(?) catacomb [or over])
2 x FFFF (with cloister)
2 x CRFR (again, over or around catacomb: continuous road)
2 x RRFF (continuous curved road)

Second sheet (more complex tiles):
CRFF (as in your example: dead-end road)
CFFR (reverse of above)
CFRF (dead-end road across from city)
CCCC (catacomb beneath full city tile)
CCCF (catacomb surrounded by three separate cities)
CCCR (connected cities with catacomb under city)
FRRR (roads end at catacomb or below it)
RRRR (roads go around catacomb; continuous roads)
2 x RRRR (two separate continuous roads, catacomb between them)
FCFC (two separate castles across a field with a catacomb in it)
FCFC (one connected castle with catacomb in one of the fields)

I hope these descriptions are comprehensible and sound good. Feel free to tweak any of them. I tried to stay within the bounds of the basic game, intending any expansions to this variant to include official and unofficial Carc expansion features. Thus I have kept Shrines out of it. If any of you feel any of the tiles won't work or need to change, feel free to do suggest it. Any other suggestions are welcome to.

[Novelty]

The "topsides" description looks good.  How about the catacombs themselves?  I don't forsee all tiles with 4 exits... I think some of them could probably have less exits.

[Whaleyland]

I think I will leave that to you. Have a good mix of 1s, 2s, 3s, and 4s, preferably of equal amounts (I guess that would mean 6 of each). Basically, place whichever one works best within the confines of the tile you are making. If there is only room for 1 exit, then don't stress making more. Only put 4 on the tile if there is really room for it, otherwise, put less. They don't have the be perfectly 6 of each, that is more the perfect situation rather than what the reality has to be. All I request is that tiles with multiple copies have different quantities of exits than each other. That way, they aren't identical draw (I just hate drawing four RRFF in a row!).

[Jabberwocky]

I like this idea a whole lot! It does give a different feel to the game with these dead meeple.

Having said that, the catacombs could also be a variant of the manifold idea that I included in my original list. All of the cities that share a catacomb are the same city, just connected by these underground passages. Could make for a very expensive and very hard to close off city.

[Jabberwocky]

Having given this some more thought...
4 points is nice tactically, but strategically, the catacombs would not be something worth playing for at all under the rules given. There's just no reason to commit a follower permanently for only four points except maybe on your last couple turns. So let me suggest a modification to the proposed rules:

1. A catacomb is always depicted as connected to a city [like what Novelty has drawn already, with the tunnel leaving the city].
2. On a turn in which you place a tile but do not place a meeple, you may move a meeple already in the city into the catacombs, provided there is still space in the catacombs. All meeple in a catacomb must be the same color.
3. At end of game, meeple in the catacombs are worth 4 points each, but only if the catacomb is full.
4. Meeple that move to the catacombs do NOT count toward ownership of the city.
5. Big meeple can only be moved in if there are two empty tombs.
6. Builders, pigs, etc, cannot be placed in catacombs.

These adjustments give a strategic use to the catacombs: Suppose you commit a meeple to a city. You know that city is not going to complete because the tiles needed to complete it are already played or don't exist. Thus your meeple is already stuck for the rest of the game, and you're only going to get partial points [or perhaps zero points if there's a cathedral]. The catacombs are an option -- you move your meeple into the catacombs for four points. The trick is you have to decide to do this before your opponent who is also stuck in the city decides to take this option.

I'd recommend that catacombs hold only 1 or 2 tombs, never more. A three or four meeple catacomb might occasionally be useful, but really, most of the time if a city is big enough for you to have thrown more than two meeple at it, the partial points are going to be worth more than the catacomb, even at 4 points per meeple, cathedrals being the rare case. A catacomb with 3 or 4 tombs would rarely be useful, but 1 or 2 it might be worth it. It might even be worth it sometimes when you own a city by a wide margin and you move some guys to the catacombs to score a few extra points beyond your opponent, though this would only be worth it right at the end game.

[Novelty]

Here's what I think is the final version.  I'm not sure if the skull is even visible at this scale...

I think that's the best of my capabilities.  Let me know if this works for you Whaley.  Once I get the greenlight from you, I'll do the rest.

[Whaleyland]

I like it. It looks to scale, and I think that's important. I mean, if the skull is hard to see, you could always put a skull icon on it somewhere. But I approve. Build on!

[Scott]

I think a skull icon would be a good idea, because unless somebody told me what the tile was for, I would be very confused.

[Novelty]

Icons are usually used for something extra.  None of the regular features have icons to identify what it is.  I don't think there should be an icon on this landscape feature, unless the icon does something else.

The first sheet is done... I think.  It doesn't have any icons.  Let me know if this is what you want, Whaley.

With regards to the second sheet... I'm not sure if it's possible to have the catacombs under the city completely (i.e. CCCC or CCCR).  That's because the buildings on top in the city will be a pain.  Do you think you could change those 2 tiles to something else?

[Whaleyland]

Unfortunately, my mind is a blank. I have been working overtime on some homework assignments before Easter Break and, despite attempts to get my Settlers CARA out, cannot for the life of me think of two new tiles for the expansion. For the CCCR tile, could you possibly make a three-sided connected city (as in, around the catacombs) without using the full graphics of the 3-sided city tile? Or better yet, could you make a CCCR with a two cities connected by a bridge (over the catacomb) and a third city on one side and a road on the other? Those types of cities usually get connected when I play. I am not sure what to do with the CCCC catacomb, though. If there is any compromise you could think of, I would probably approve. I wanted to find some way of putting a catacomb under a city, but I didn't want to make it an extra hard tile to make or anything. Thanks for all the work on these tiles. They look awesome.

[Novelty]

The bridged CCCR might be possible.  I'll try the CCCC tile with the catacombs, but it might look even more like "a hole in the ground" than usual.  If you have any other idea throughout the week, please feel free to post.

Edit: Here is what I think the rules should be.  Please let me know what changes need to be made.

[Novelty]

OK, here's page 2.  If there are no further comments regarding these or the rules, I'll finalise them over the weekend.

[Whaleyland]

You are my hero, Novelty. The under-city tile looks great and the bridges too! I like the rules but don't really have a lot of time to edit them right now. I think they are pretty good. I can't know for sure until I playtest the slightly modified rules, which I can't do until my printer is working again, which can't get fixed until after Spring Break. In other words, release the expansion and I will provide my 12 cents as soon as I can. Thank you again for making this expansion. It feels good to have contributed to one of these finally. I look forward to playing with the tiles asap. Cheers!