The House of Valois

[wicke]

The House of Valois

A Carcassonne variant originated by Patrik Wikström

Between 1328 and 1589 the French family of Valois reigned in France. They were descendants of Charles of Valois, the fourth son of King Philip III. The first in this line was Philip VI, the grandson of King Philip III. The second in this line were John II, the Good, son of Philip VI. The third was Charles V, the Wise, son of John II. The people around Carcassonne are rejoiced when they are able to host the Valois family members when they are travelling by.

EXTRA PIECES
•   2 Large Gold figures (representing John II, the Good and Charles V, the Wise)

ADDITIONAL RULES
Deploying a Valois family member
When a player places a city tile that includes a pennant,  connecting it to a city where he has the majority of ownership, the player has the possibility of placing a Valois family member into that city. If no Valois family member has been placed before, the player takes one of the large gold figures from the side of the playing area and places it onto the city segment of the tile just laid.

If one gold figure has already been placed, the player may take the second large gold figure from the side of the playing area and place it onto the city segment of the tile just laid.

If both large gold figures have been placed, the player has the possibility of “luring” a Valois family member to come and visit his city if the two cities are connected by a road.

A player is not obligated to place a Valois family member to a city.

Scoring
5 points are added to the completed city with one Valois family member, but if a completed city contains both Valois family members the city scores double the amount of points.

After scoring, the Valois family members are removed from the city and are returned to the side of the playing area, until another tile with a pennant is drawn.

Playing this variant/expansion together with The Count of Carcassonne will enable the possibility of overtaking a city visited by Valois family members.

Acknowledgements
Thanks to Jonathan Warren for comments

[Novelty]

Nice and simple expansion.  The text needs to be "tightened up" to prevent misunderstandings, but otherwise it's good.

"The people around Carcassonne are rejoiced when they are able to host the Valois family members when they are travelling by."
should probably be
"The people living around the city of Carcassonne rejoices when they are able to play host to the Valois family members."

Here's the gold meeple image.  The original image for this and the white count is by Oskar Lindqvist.  I just modified them to the correct colour.

[Joff]

Here is the latest draft rules: The House of Valois

[Novelty]

Proofreading:

"The second in this line were..." should be "The second in this line was..."

"When a player places a city tile that includes a pennant," Didn't the Pope use laid instead of places?  And the word places is used twice in that sentence.  What if the tile also contains a road or a cloister, is it still considered a city tile?  I'd prefer  "When a tile with a pennent is played, ..."

"connecting it to a city where he has the majority of ownership," just makes me want to go "Oh dearie me!" that's just so verbose and the meaning of some of the words could be interpreted differently.  "to a city where the player has the most followers," would be better.

"the player has the possibility of placing a Valois family member into that city."  Say what? possibility?  what does it depend on?  are there any odds that we can bet on?  is this a game to be played in a casino?  "that player may place a Valois family member into that city." would be better.

Overall: "When a tile with a pennent is played to a city where the player has the most followers, that player may place a Valois family member into that city."

Question: Where does the Valois family member go?  Any tile within the city?  An unoccupied tile within the city?  The tile just played?

"If no Valois family member has been placed before,..." would be better phrased as "If there are any large gold followers that are not in a city,..."

"the player takes one of the large gold figures from the side of the playing area" needs the change of figures to followers and they may be from the box or the bag or wherever, not necessary the side of the playing area so "the player may take one of the unplayed large gold followers"

Overall: If there are any large gold followers that are not in a city, the player may take one of the unplayed large gold followers and place it onto the city segment of the tile just laid.

That would make the next statement redundant.

"If both large gold figures have been placed, the player has the possibility of “luring” a Valois family member to come and visit his city if the two cities are connected by a road."
would probably read better as
"If both large gold followers have been played, the player may move one of the large gold followers to the city just extended by the player, provided that there is a road linking the two cities" or something like that.

General comments and questions
* Are Valois Family Member and Large Gold Followers/Meeples/Figure two different things?  I think the rules should pick one and stick with it.  I would prefer "large gold follower" because that's what is actually being used, so as not to offend my friends Jean Valois and Suzanne Valois.  Otherwise, I would have difficulty placing them onto Carcassonne tiles.
* Double the amount of points for 2 LGF - does it double pennants? cathedrals?  the pope?  At what point does doubling take place?
* What does "overtaking a city visited by Valois family members." mean?  How is this carried out in terms of game actions?
And the usual questions:
* Can the LGF be removed by the dragon or the tower?   How about the gallows or the stocks?
* What happens when the fairy is next to the LGF?
* Does the LGF take part in the Jousting tournaments?
* How does this expansion work with Families or Family Feud?
* Does Joff prefer sushi or curry?

[Joff]

* Does Joff prefer sushi or curry?

Neither. I detest them both

[Joff]

wicke's latest draft rules: The House of Valois 0.3

[Novelty]

Looks good

Minor quibble: The "of" in the title looks weird when compared to the rest which is in capital letters.  Perhaps it should be made capital letters, but at a smaller font instead?

New Question: Is placing a large gold follower a MTW action?  i.e. After placing a large gold follower, can I still play a meeple or move the fairy or play a tower piece, etc.?

Comment: It would be nice to have scoring examples, especially for the "doubling" part.

Unanswered questions:
* What happens when the fairy (P&D) is next to a large gold follower?

(for Joff)
* Can the large gold follower be removed by gallows or stocks?
* How does the large gold follower interacts with the jousting tournament (in terms of strength and scoring?
* The footnote about the dragon, tower, city isn't linked to anything above (and this goes for Avignon as well).  Should it link to the end of the first statement of "Deploying a Valois family member"
* Can I add a footnote for pennant in that first statement to say that it could either be a blue-and-white pennant, or a red-and-yellow pennant from the fan-made Families or Family Feud expansions.

[Joff]

wicke's latest rules: The House of Valois 0.4

(for Joff)
* Can the large gold follower be removed by gallows or stocks?
* How does the large gold follower interacts with the jousting tournament (in terms of strength and scoring?

I still have some comments to add regarding this, so I will add them in due course... but the answers are: Can the large gold follower be removed by gallows or stocks? No.
How does the large gold follower interacts with the jousting tournament (in terms of strength and scoring?) They do not affect the jousting tournament as they are not deployed as Knights, they are deployed as royalty (I think ).

[Novelty]

Looks good, besides the 2 things that Joff said is sitll missing, the follow, quoted below, has not been addressed.

New Question: Is placing a large gold follower a MTW action?  i.e. After placing a large gold follower, can I still play a meeple or move the fairy or play a tower piece, etc.?

Comment: It would be nice to have scoring examples, especially for the "doubling" part.

[wicke]

I did put in a scoring example

[Novelty]

I did put in a scoring example

I saw, but usually, the official rules have example pictures of the scoring as well.  It could do with that...

[wicke]

This will be my last post to the forum.
I can't, and won't, spend so much of my time on this forum, that I can answer all conceivable questions (and draw pictures to show a simpel 'double points' rule).
I thought, when I started thinking about these three new expansions that I (and hopefully some others as well) would have fun with the new additions and that it would bring something new to the game.
But the last 3 weeks all my (Carc) spare time have gone into answering questions and I have only had time for ONE Carc game with my girlfriend, and that game had to be abrubtly stopped since we were too tired.

The response to my ideas for Kevin Graham's expansion 'Prison' and the long list of comments to 'The kids are growing up' (or 'The mini-followers are growing up' which I was told to change the title to) really STOPPED ALL MY AMBITION to keep up with this.
Please continue with YOUR forum, I promise NOT to invade on YOUR property again.

[Gantry]

wicke, sending you a pm/email

hope you will reconsider!

[Novelty]

I'm sorry that you feel too harassed by the questions, wicke.  My intentions were to get the rules document up to the standards that has been applied to the other Carcassonne Central rules documents.  I'm sorry you took the comments personally where it wasn't meant to be.

I'm sorry that you have decided to not post anymore, I know Gantry and mjharper set up this place for all fans of Carcassonne, so it's doesn't just belong to a select group of people but to all fans, yourself included.  But I guess it's up to you whether you would like to make this place yours or not.

Personally I'm slightly disappointed.  I see the work that Joff and myself have put into expansions, and I know the work on Joff's part is substantially more than mine.  Now that the rules document and the tiles have been made (although the rules are not complete by Carcassonne Central standards), you have decided to bail out because it seems you have what you want.  Oh well.

Gantry, if you would like to ban me for however long due to the fact that someone has left because of me, please feel free to do so.

[Scott]

Wicke, I know how you feel from my experience with the 'Lord of the Manor' expansion. Novelty means well with his feedback. I find it best to wait a few days and come back with a fresh perspective.