Carcassonne Central expansion: reboot!

[CKorfmann]

I like and have considered the mountains and I might agree with you, only the base set has 60 tiles.  That would be the largest expansion to date (disregarding the Wheel of Fate).  I'm not sure if they'd go for a 60 tile set but I also don't think we could do mountains with less.  However, I could be persuaded to vote for it if others are on board. 

May I suggest that we split this thread in two?  Expansion ideas and logistical ideas.

[Tobias]

May I suggest that we split this thread in two?  Expansion ideas and logistical ideas.

You would have to talk Steve into it; he understands english.

[Whaleyland]

I am against adding new meeples to the set, for the sheer reasons that it will be harder to propose such an expansion to Jay and HiG and that I don't think they are currently looking for more followers. We have plenty of expansions here that don't require new meeples, so let's choose from those. If you disagree, feel free to propose one and I will place it on the list.

Personally, I agree that for a larger expansion, something using the Mountains could be good and new. I am not sure if the original rules by Novelty would be good, though, since they require remembering an awful lot of nuances, but perhaps something could be made from them. Using the cloister tiles from the High Places expansion is my personal recommendation, although I also like the idea that mountains could block off a side of the tile. That being said, I am adding my own proposed expansion to the list below, and a generic two categories for future inclusion on the poll.

List of proposed expansions for the poll:
1. Seasons
2. Mountains (with some modifications)
3. Fishermen (with some aspects from at least one expansion)
4. Let's make a new expansion!
5. I don't think we should make an expansion to publish

[Skull One]

I like and have considered the mountains and I might agree with you, only the base set has 60 tiles.  That would be the largest expansion to date (disregarding the Wheel of Fate).  I'm not sure if they'd go for a 60 tile set but I also don't think we could do mountains with less.  However, I could be persuaded to vote for it if others are on board. 

May I suggest that we split this thread in two?  Expansion ideas and logistical ideas.

I believe it can be done using the original 36 tile set that Novelty did.  Which fits within the 12 tile per sheet or 6 tile per sheet die system that RGG already has in place.

[CKorfmann]

Well, I think I would support a Mountain set.  Having not ever played it, I'm not sure if 36 would be enough.  Perhaps Novelty needs to comment on that.  The one question I would have is whether or not a Mountain expansion is on HiG's master list of future possibilities.  It seems possible if not likely.  If so, then I doubt they'd want someone else to do it first.  Then again, if they did, would they have put out Catapult?    Any way, it does use mostly their own artwork so the tiles already look right.

As for Fishermen, not that it's not a worthy expansion, but I'm not sure that it's different enough to warrent a serious consideration from them.  I could be quite wrong though. 

Perhaps the meeple question should be another one for Jay before we throw it out.  Are you keeping a list Whaley?

[Whaleyland]

Well, I think I would support a Mountain set.  Having not ever played it, I'm not sure if 36 would be enough.  Perhaps Novelty needs to comment on that.  The one question I would have is whether or not a Mountain expansion is on HiG's master list of future possibilities.  It seems possible if not likely.  If so, then I doubt they'd want someone else to do it first.  Then again, if they did, would they have put out Catapult?    Any way, it does use mostly their own artwork so the tiles already look right.

As for Fishermen, not that it's not a worthy expansion, but I'm not sure that it's different enough to warrent a serious consideration from them.  I could be quite wrong though. 

I think 36 well-chosen Mountain tiles would be good. I don't think it would require more, especially if we add to the function of the mountain a sort of Abbey-like quality. Too many could make it too powerful. I agree that Mountains could be on HiG's short list, but with Catapult and Wheel I don't think they remember that they have a short list. Use of their artwork probably helps our case too because it would mean less design for them.

Fisherman was more of an idea for me because I think that the River mechanics are very general and simple-minded. Spreading out to the Fisherman concept, the River suddenly is worth points, adds to the aesthetics of the board in a more random way, and provides a full feature rather than the limited feature it currently is. But I hesitated adding it to the list originally for the very reason you suggest, that it isn't very WOW-ful. But I think it merits inclusion since obviously HiG has considered the topic enough to include it. It would have to be a 24-36 tile expansion, of course, and could possibly include new followers too, pending Jay's response.

Perhaps the meeple question should be another one for Jay before we throw it out.  Are you keeping a list Whaley?

Can we include new meeples? Check!

Here's the list of questions I have so far:
1) How does the author or authors of any expansion transfer rights of ownership to Rio Grande Games and/or Hans im Glück?
2) Will there be any legal complications over the fact that the expansion has been created and distributed via our website in the years/months prior to release of the expansion in a commercial format?
3) Can a new expansion include new wooden pieces?
4) Would Rio Grande Games consider a second expansion from Carcassonne Central if the first such expansion is a success?

Any other pressing issues I should ask? I don't like sending Jay too many emails. He gets frustrated, I think. I was thinking that if, and this is a big IF, we get something worked out before October, we could maybe get him to playtest it at Essen. That would definitely make things a lot better for everyone involved...assuming Jay is going to Essen this year, which he should be.

[CKorfmann]

An abbey mechanic with the Mountain tiles doesn't seem to sit very well with me for some reason.  Not sure why.

As for Fishermen:

Hopefully I'll have some time tonight to make more custom tiles - I cleared out my FLGS of River 2 expansions last week, but haven't found the time to make the tiles yet!  There were too few river tiles in the game, even with 3 river expansions and 30 fan-made river tiles.

It took a little digging, but I remembered and found this quote from Novelty.  It seems as though he wasn't satisfied with 60+ river tiles in his game.  Granted, he used a truckload of tiles in that one though.  Maybe he could shed some more light on this one for us.  Plus, Fishermen just adds a new mechanic to old tiles, even if it is a very good one.  I'm not sure they'd be interested in us handing them a bunch of dragon tiles only with a new mechanic or another Mayor that does something different.  Just a thought...

Oh, and here's another question, would he be able to further define distribution by RGG?  Does that mean it would go out in a box from him just like everything else?  Or, is this obvious and I'm just a dumby?

[Joff]

I would add to the list either my Jousting Tournament or a two tile version of In the Stocks. I feel that In the Stocks provides a better base mechanic than Jousting Tournament. Jousting Tournament is really geared up to be played with Abbey and Mayor, whereas In the Stocks can be played with any combination of sets. Just to be clear, I am not proposing the whole Medieval Expansion, which consists of 4 individual expansions, as that is too unbalanced.

I do like Lord of the Manor by Scott, but would like to see the 'bail out' rule added to this (that is a personal opinion and could be a house rule (or official optional rule ), which it is at the moment).

Also, Ghettos by Novelty.

If we are going to have some sort of vote then it would be a good idea if we have a representation from all the authors in the list.

Looking at Mountains, I feel that this is a bit too large!

[Whaleyland]

Okay, I'm adding In the Stocks and Lord of the Manor to the list. I feel Ghettos probably isn't what Novelty would prefer and I don't really think we need a second whole-filler expansion as we already have one with A&M. That being said, I can include it on the list if people feel it should be on there. I added Lord of the Manor because others earlier also expressed the desire to add it to the list and I, too, like the little expansion. In fact, it was the first expansion I ever printed and pasted on my CS&C tiles!

List of proposed expansions for the poll:
1. Seasons
2. Mountains (with some modifications)
3. In the Stocks (2-tile edition)
4. Lord of the Manor (with possible bail-out rule)
5. mathguy Gamma (with some tiles possibly switched with Winter and Thanksgiving 2008 or a different mathguy expansion's tiles)
6. Let's make a new expansion!
7. I don't think we should make an expansion to publish

Also, I added CKorfmann's new question to the list:

Current list of questions:
1) How does the author or authors of any expansion transfer rights of ownership to Rio Grande Games and/or Hans im Glück?
2) Will there be any legal complications over the fact that the expansion has been created and distributed via our website in the years/months prior to release of the expansion in a commercial format?
3) Can a new expansion include new wooden pieces?
4) Would Rio Grande Games consider a second expansion from Carcassonne Central if the first such expansion is a success?
5) How exactly would distribution of the expansion work? Would it be distributed in a box (small for a mini-expansion or big for a large expansion) or would it distributed more like the Games Quarterly expansion (unpunched in a bag)?

Edit: Removed Fisherman from the list as per concerns. Added mathguy Gamma. Sorry, forgot to include it earlier!

[CKorfmann]

I would add to the list either my Jousting Tournament or a two tile version of In the Stocks.

As worthy as these tiles are and as much as I'm rooting for you, I'd hate to see the Medieval expansion split up.  I'm not sure that's the answer.  If the first expansion goes well and they are interested in a second, I think the Medieval expansion stands a much greater chance being offered on the whole.  However, we shouldn't "count our chickens" on a second chance, so if you're willing to split it, that's is obviously up to you. 

[Gantry]

if we start to receive royalties, don't we stop being a non-commercial fan site?

Not-for-profit entities have expenses too.

[CKorfmann]

if we start to receive royalties, don't we stop being a non-commercial fan site?

Not-for-profit entities have expenses too.

So is the Carcassonne Central name legally protected and do we have official not-for-profit status?  I would think this necessary.

[Joff]

I would add to the list either my Jousting Tournament or a two tile version of In the Stocks.

As worthy as these tiles are and as much as I'm rooting for you, I'd hate to see the Medieval expansion split up.  I'm not sure that's the answer.  If the first expansion goes well and they are interested in a second, I think the Medieval expansion stands a much greater chance being offered on the whole.  However, we shouldn't "count our chickens" on a second chance, so if you're willing to split it, that's is obviously up to you. 

The only reason they are grouped in this way is because of theme. A whole Medieval Expansion is just far too unbalanced... there are too many 'cccc' tiles included.

[Skull One]

if we start to receive royalties, don't we stop being a non-commercial fan site?

Not-for-profit entities have expenses too.

So is the Carcassonne Central name legally protected and do we have official not-for-profit status?  I would think this necessary.

The paperwork to setup a non-profit organization isn't cheap.  It requires legal council and several fillings with the proper goverment agencies.  I am not familiar with Canada laws for this, but I suspect it follows similar rules as the United States.  A hobby site of this nature would require everyone to chip in to defray the cost.  

[Gantry]

I have rights to the name "Carcassonne Central" through prior use, but it is not legally trademarked.  CC is not a legal entity, only a web site run as if it were a non-profit.  Although we will in the future, you'll notice there aren't many ads on this site (right now just the banner on the home page). Any money that the site or community members make as a collective will be put back into improving or running the site. Carcassonne for me is fun, not work.