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Author Topic: Gold mines  (Read 55858 times)
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Novelty
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« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2008, 02:08:14 am »

2. Another idea to punish players for incompletely surrounded mines is to penalize the player -1 for each tile around his mine which is not complete.
3. Another idea is to only give the player 1 point up till the mine is surrounded on 7 of the 8 sides.  This makes it really hard to put the mine in a position that the opponents cannot completely surround it.  it also is a punishment to the player for playing a mine as the opponent woudl never waste a tile to finish surrounding your mine because you woudl get the miner back at that time.
I think these ideas have merit...

4. finally, you could simply have a rule that playing a mine next to an existing mine returns the miner on the old mine to the players hand.  this is the "found a better deposit in the area" rule.  This is an easy way to randomly remove your opponents mine.
I like this idea!

So, will we get a tuckbox for the 12 tiles, henrysunset? Grin
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henrysunset
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« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2008, 02:33:49 am »

a few extra ideas to keep everyone creative...
- there could be two types of mines with slightly different rules?  I could see silver and gold mines easily.
- we could introduce a "mint" tile.  it might earn the owner 4 points whenever it is the closest mint to a completed mine.  (when >1 mint's are the same distance, they each earn 4 points.)  the owner of a mint can remove his follower at any time, forgoing the ability to earn three points when the next mine is completed.
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henrysunset
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« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2008, 02:36:31 am »

So, will we get a tuckbox for the 12 tiles, henrysunset? Grin

We'll see, but if it comes togeher nicely, i don't see why not.

Another idea, we should ensure that each of the 12 tiles are common pieces int he basic set + the mine icon... thus, it would be easy to print  and cut out some stickers and add them to some common pieces to make a set.
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Novelty
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« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2008, 06:16:51 am »

Here's my latest version with the images.  I hope the images are clear.  BTW, Matt, I hope you don't mind me stealing the scoring example from the CAR.

And here are the gold mine tiles!  Thanks goes to maulei for the T&B scans!  They were great!  My apologies for the less than stellar graphic in the gold trade counters Sad

Scott, I've emailed you the original file if you wish to make any more changes!

Edit: Now with thumbnail goodness!

« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 06:20:47 am by Novelty » Logged

Jambo
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« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2008, 06:36:39 am »

Personally, I would advise against any form of scoring that occurs at the start or end of turns.  The fairy scores at the start of turns and people forget and generally find that aspect more of a nuisance. 

I do like the idea of generating gold pieces and them scoring similar to the way trade goods work.  It's generally perceived that the score from trade goods gets weaker the more expansions you use. Just an idea, but has anyone considered linking gold pieces to trade goods in some fashion, perhaps with some interaction to boost the overall scoring of trade goods?

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Scott
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« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2008, 10:10:22 am »

1. One idea is that you never get the miner back.

I'm not keen on this.

2. Another idea to punish players for incompletely surrounded mines is to penalize the player -1 for each tile around his mine which is not complete.

I like this very much. Just need to change one word in the rules. (scores -> loses) Smiley That will give the owning player some incentive to complete his gold mines towards the end of the game.

3. Another idea is to only give the player 1 point up till the mine is surrounded on 7 of the 8 sides.  This makes it really hard to put the mine in a position that the opponents cannot completely surround it.  it also is a punishment to the player for playing a mine as the opponent woudl never waste a tile to finish surrounding your mine because you woudl get the miner back at that time.

Not everybody has all the tiles memorized, so this might be difficult for some in practice.

4. finally, you could simply have a rule that playing a mine next to an existing mine returns the miner on the old mine to the players hand.  this is the "found a better deposit in the area" rule.  This is an easy way to randomly remove your opponents mine.

Interesting idea. I'm not sure how I feel about it. Maybe some play testing is needed.

- there could be two types of mines with slightly different rules?  I could see silver and gold mines easily.

How would the rules change for a silver mine, and would it be worth it? I'm concerned about making this expansion more complicated than it already is.

- we could introduce a "mint" tile.  it might earn the owner 4 points whenever it is the closest mint to a completed mine.  (when >1 mint's are the same distance, they each earn 4 points.)  the owner of a mint can remove his follower at any time, forgoing the ability to earn three points when the next mine is completed.

I would be more inclined towards calling it a smelter, and I'm sort of inclined towards only allowing it to score points if it is immediately within a gold mine's completion area.

Personally, I would advise against any form of scoring that occurs at the start or end of turns.  The fairy scores at the start of turns and people forget and generally find that aspect more of a nuisance.

Perhaps this will help people get used to the idea then. Wink 

I do like the idea of generating gold pieces and them scoring similar to the way trade goods work.  It's generally perceived that the score from trade goods gets weaker the more expansions you use. Just an idea, but has anyone considered linking gold pieces to trade goods in some fashion, perhaps with some interaction to boost the overall scoring of trade goods?

I don't think there are any provisions for this in the T&B rules, but it's probably a common house rule that trade goods can be traded at the end of the game. For example:

Player 1: 2 cloth, 1 wheat
Player 2: 2 cloth, 2 wheat
Player 3: 2 wheat, 1 cloth

Player 1 trades his 1 wheat to Player 3 for 1 cloth, allowing both of them to break their ties with Player 2 and score 10 points each while Player 2 scores no points (unless he has other trade goods).
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Novelty
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« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2008, 10:16:58 am »

Scott, I'll leave it up to you to update the rules.  Lemme know if you need any more images Smiley
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Scott
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« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2008, 10:29:19 am »

Here is v0.4:
http://www.mediafire.com/?mv0nvjmymvm
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Novelty
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« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2008, 10:36:07 am »

Looks good.  Thanks for the font fix, Scott!
« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 07:11:17 pm by Novelty » Logged

Jambo
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« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2008, 10:42:00 am »

Quote from: Scott
I don't think there are any provisions for this in the T&B rules, but it's probably a common house rule that trade goods can be traded at the end of the game. For example:

Player 1: 2 cloth, 1 wheat
Player 2: 2 cloth, 2 wheat
Player 3: 2 wheat, 1 cloth

Player 1 trades his 1 wheat to Player 3 for 1 cloth, allowing both of them to break their ties with Player 2 and score 10 points each while Player 2 scores no points (unless he has other trade goods).

I wasn't really meaning in this sense. What I was trying to get across as an idea, was that the collection of the gold pieces could in some way have a knock-on effect to the scoring from trade goods. In a large game of Carcassonne the 10 points for each trade good is somewhat superfluous in the grander scheme of things when scoring is well over 300 points.  The gold mine variant might be an opportunity to reinstate some worth to collecting trade goods... your mileage may vary of course.
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Joff
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« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2008, 11:53:11 am »

Quote from: GOLD MINE RULES
Playing with the River tiles

The river tiles are played using the normal rules from the Rivers and Rivers II expansions. However, when a river tile
with a gold mine is placed, a follower may also be deployed to the gold mine, in addition to any other allowable actions. A follower that is deployed to a gold mine is called a miner. After the river has been completed (by placing the last lake tile), the player scores 1 point at the end of every player's turn (including the turn that the last lake tile is placed) until the gold mine is completed (i.e. when it is surrounded by eight tiles).

Question. The River tiles include a piece that has a gold mine and a road. Does this mean I can place a follower on a gold mine and also on the road? If not there is a confusing statement (highlighted in red in quote). If this is correct, it seems unfair.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 12:21:42 pm by Joff » Logged
Scott
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« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2008, 04:08:05 pm »

I'm pretty sure he didn't mean to imply more than one meeple per tile. I found a few other problems too. Here's an updated version which should make things more clear.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ybmgjw4mtu3
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Novelty
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« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2008, 06:40:33 pm »

Thanks Scott.  I just realised that the fork in the river can only be used together with both Rivers expansions, or with a River expansion (either) and GQ11 expansion.  Otherwise, the river will never be complete.  Do we need to add that into the rules as well?  I knew I should have included a gold mine on a lake...
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Scott
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« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2008, 07:31:14 pm »

Fixed:
http://www.mediafire.com/?yqdmzmldgz0

Once we're sure everything is done, I'll make a version 1.0 that includes the tile images in the same PDF file for easier downloading. Then Gantry can post it in the Downloads section.
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« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2008, 07:41:38 pm »

minor correction, but my alias is HenrySunset :-)
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