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Author Topic: Completely Annotated Rules - work in progress!  (Read 381403 times)
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Whaleyland
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« Reply #390 on: February 07, 2011, 02:07:35 am »

If you have Crop Circles done and can do a quick upload at some point later today, please do. I am very unsatisfied with all translations thus far and have been awaiting your update eagerly. It's the only expansion I own that I've only played once, and incorrectly at that.
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« Reply #391 on: February 07, 2011, 02:21:32 am »

Did anyone notice the glaring error in tile placement for the illustration on page 14 of the RGG BB3 rules?  Kinda silly if you ask me.

The oddest thing is that the error is also in the German editions Whaleyland just linked to; but it isn't in the original rules. So HiG changed the image for the Big Box, and RGG copied it wholesale.

As you say, kinda silly Grin

I wanted to say also that a house rule I use for the barn is; pig meeple/no, pig tile/yes.
Keep that one in mind: I mean to ask later for more house rules  Smiley

If you have Crop Circles done and can do a quick upload at some point later today, please do. I am very unsatisfied with all translations thus far and have been awaiting your update eagerly. It's the only expansion I own that I've only played once, and incorrectly at that.
Done. I've uploaded the latest version, which includes Crop Circles. The images are poor quality because they're taken from HiG's site (my copy should be in the post). And as a bonus, you have the first couple of paragraphs of The Plague  Wink

What was confusing about the other translations? I haven't seen them, so can't comment... but if mine is still confusing, let me know  Smiley
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« Reply #392 on: February 07, 2011, 03:02:31 am »

Okay, just finished a read-through of the Crop Circles rules. Definitely more readable, but here are my questions/issues:

  • "may take a follower from their supply deploy it next to another of their followers which is already in play, or" — First, there should be an "and" after "supply" and the "which is" seems unnecessary. Second, you say "may take" but I had previously understood there to be no option (i.e. "must take") since all players are affected by that player's decision. In other words, IF a player has a follower on the appropriate feature and a follower in their supply, they MUST place a second follower beside one of their already deployed followers.
  • That all being said, I just reread the whole thing and you actually say "must" in the introduction line which is repetetive with the "must"s that are used later. Perhaps just stating "After that, he or she decides whether all players:".
  • As an FAQ question, the rules don't actually address what happens if you DO have a follower on the appropriate feature but DON'T have an available follower to double-up on that tile. Do you just not do anything or do you have to move a follower from another feature?
  • From your first example: "She could have also deployed her follower to next to the knight on the top left tile." Probably should read: "She could have also deployed her follower beside the knight on the top left tile." It sounds kind of wordy otherwise.

Didn't see any other problems with it and thanks for some clarification on play-order. Totally forgot that the turn finishes first then the extra add or remove rounds commences. So many nuances to remember! Hopefully my tips help.

Edit: Random aside, I totally think you should put the Plague Doctor picture I have on the Plague Rules page with the Plague expansion. Just like Cathars, the plague is a historically-based expansion and should have some extra theming with it.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 03:10:53 am by Whaleyland » Logged

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« Reply #393 on: February 07, 2011, 03:31:00 am »

"may take a follower from their supply deploy it next to another of their followers which is already in play, or" — First, there should be an "and" after "supply" and the "which is" seems unnecessary.
Corrected.

Second, you say "may take" but I had previously understood there to be no option (i.e. "must take") since all players are affected by that player's decision. In other words, IF a player has a follower on the appropriate feature and a follower in their supply, they MUST place a second follower beside one of their already deployed followers.
This caught me out to begin with, but they seem to be two different things.

The active player must make a decision about whether to use option A) or B). That's straightforward.

With option B), all players must remove one follower from play, if they have a follower of the appropriate type. The German is müssen (must).

With option A) all players may add a follower next to one of the appropriate type. The German is dürfen (may).

Like you, this struck me as odd, so I checked and double checked. But it's actually confirmed in the examples. The example scenario for B) again says muss, and the example scenario for A) says darf. Unfortunately, the example doesn't show us someone choosing not to deploy the bonus follower, but from those two uses of darf I can only conclude that once the active player has chosen A), the other players can choose whether to deploy or not.

That all being said, I just reread the whole thing and you actually say "must" in the introduction line which is repetetive with the "must"s that are used later. Perhaps just stating "After that, he or she decides whether all players:".
That's what I wrote to begin with, until I realized the rules were using muss and darf and each case needed to be clearer...

As an FAQ question, the rules don't actually address what happens if you DO have a follower on the appropriate feature but DON'T have an available follower to double-up on that tile. Do you just not do anything or do you have to move a follower from another feature?
I guess this is clearer if A) is 'may' rather than 'must', if only because a player would be 'forced' into 'choosing' not to deploy a second follower.

From your first example: "She could have also deployed her follower to next to the knight on the top left tile." Probably should read: "She could have also deployed her follower beside the knight on the top left tile." It sounds kind of wordy otherwise.
Changed to "She could also have deployed her follower beside the knight on the top left tile."

Didn't see any other problems with it and thanks for some clarification on play-order. Totally forgot that the turn finishes first then the extra add or remove rounds commences. So many nuances to remember! Hopefully my tips help.
Glad it's clearer, and thanks for the tips. I'm also thinking that this may/must business should be clarified in a footnote.

EDIT:
Edit: Random aside, I totally think you should put the Plague Doctor picture I have on the Plague Rules page with the Plague expansion. Just like Cathars, the plague is a historically-based expansion and should have some extra theming with it.
That's a good idea Smiley - I've just added it. Do you have a link for the source?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 03:43:33 am by mjharper » Logged

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« Reply #394 on: February 07, 2011, 04:24:14 am »

I got the Plague Doctor image from http://thesocietypages.org/economicsociology/2008/12/29/182/
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« Reply #395 on: February 07, 2011, 12:44:42 pm »

On page 76 of the beta release:

Quote
"The active player uncovers as many land tiles as there are players. Then
the next player selects one of the tiles and and declares how many points..."

On page 79:
Quote
"...it is possible for two.occupied castles to be located..."
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 12:53:45 pm by The Broox » Logged
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« Reply #396 on: February 07, 2011, 02:05:53 pm »

Are you translating the rules to 'The Plague' yourself ?
Here are the official english rules from Spielbox:
http://www.spielbox-magazin.de/pdf/CCS_diepest_en.pdf
Just in case you didn't know about them.
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« Reply #397 on: February 07, 2011, 02:10:21 pm »

Sekim, just fyi: All rules are always translated from the original German for the CAR. While official (and unofficial) translations are consulted, the finish product is always from the German, not English, translation. Trust me, Matt knows about the English crap-lation of the Plague rules.
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« Reply #398 on: February 07, 2011, 02:16:07 pm »

Ah ok. Thanks for clearing that up  Wink

I've never actually read the offocial translation by Spielbox. So I'm completely unaware about any differences compared to the german version  Huh?

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« Reply #399 on: February 07, 2011, 04:45:26 pm »

the English crap-lation of the Plague rules.
That pretty much sums it up.
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« Reply #400 on: February 08, 2011, 01:05:32 pm »

@The Broox: thanks for the corrections.
@Sekim: Yes, everything is freshly translated Smiley Otherwise it would be impossible to have any consistency of style or terminology, and part of the point of the CAR was that RGG's translations were sometimes a little too free... And thanks for the link anyway. Resources you think might be useful are always appreciated.
––––––

Uploaded Beta 8, with rules for Crop Circles, The Plague, The Party and The Phantom, plus all relevant stuff in the tile distribution and glossary.

Obviously the last two are mostly placeholders, as they haven't actually been released yet, but the rules have at least been translated. We could still change the tiles later; I opted for The Phantom because the HiG site calls the expansion 'The Entourage... or also The Phantom'. And I like the alliteration of Plague, Party and Phantom Wink

I appreciate that The Party and The Phantom are both pretty small expansions, but I decided they should be listed separately as they have to be purchased separately. If HiG surprises (and pleases) us by packaging both in the Jubilee edition, I'll merge them into one.

I'd greatly appreciate any feedback on The Plague. Man, that was a pain in the neck to translate.

To do: the turn overview, the big box 2 + 3 additions (oh joy), any new house rules and arguably La Porxada.

As usual, the beta is available at http://mjharper.macbay.de/CARnew.pdf
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 02:15:50 pm by mjharper » Logged

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« Reply #401 on: February 08, 2011, 01:39:20 pm »

...and arguably La Porxada.
Since that is the closest thing we've got to a fan-expansion that 'made it', I think it's important to embrace it and support it.  I say include it.  Does anyone know the guy who made it?  We should talk to him about hosting it here as well.
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« Reply #402 on: February 08, 2011, 02:00:09 pm »

...and arguably La Porxada.
Since that is the closest thing we've got to a fan-expansion that 'made it', I think it's important to embrace it and support it.  I say include it.  Does anyone know the guy who made it?  We should talk to him about hosting it here as well.

I agree, it is the most official unofficial expansion in existence.
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« Reply #403 on: February 08, 2011, 02:43:31 pm »

Wow! Just realized I am a moderator. Weird. I heard it was being discussed. Didn't realize it was a reality. Anywho, some edits for you Matt:

The Tunnel (pgs. 74-75):
• p.74 – "untagged": Despite your explanation, I still don't like the term. "Tagging" in the US refers often to graffiti and that is the first thing that came to my mind. Perhaps "unclaimed" would be better?
• p.74 – "tunnel entrance". Not sure if it matters, but train tunnels are called "portals", though this may cause confusion with "magic portals".
• p.74n198 – "it clearly clarifies that...". A bit redundant.
• p.74 – The in-text footnote for 199 is in the same style as the header, but I feel it should probably be more in style with the regular text. Right now, it seems a little overlarge and detailed.

The Plague (pgs. 84-88):
• p.84 – "the plague is spreading" should probably read "the plague spreads".
• p.84 – " A follower on a affected tile is removed without score". Should read "scoring".
• p.84 – "It is never part of a epidemic". Should read "an".
• p.85 – "Prepare the tokens." What does this mean?
• p.85 – Taking flight from the plague – Is a flea or outbreak required to be in a follower's feature for the follower to flee? Or can a follower anywhere on the board flee if they feel like it? This could have massive reprucussions for play with The Dragon and The Tower, since you could hypothetically flee from peripheral towers or from a rampaging dragon.
• p.85n209 – "first 18 tiles placements of the game." Should read "tile".
• p.86 – "(instead the privilege of largely choosing where the infestation will occur)". Sounds awkward.
• p.87 – "Just take the six tiles with that come with the set as an example:".
• p.87 – "which makes should make it clear"
I looked up to see if "infestation" is a word that could be used to describe the Bubonic Plague and, sure enough, it is. Apparently the plague is a bacteria—I always thought it was a virus—and bacteria infest. Rats and fleas infest too. So we're good with your terminology. Awesome translation overall, by the way. Maybe Jay can hire you as the official rules translator at Rio Grande.

The Party (pg. 89):
• "deploy one figure" and "return one figure". So does this mean you can also do these actions with pig, builder, and barn, or should this read "follower"?
• "or" was originally bold. Was this intentionally decapitalized?

The Phantom (pg. 90):
• "After placing a tile, the player may deploy the phantom to the it as a second follower." This doesn't make sense.
• "As such, in this turn the player may deploy two followers to two different segments." Shouldn't this read "features"?

That's it for now. I will read through BC&B (CB&B?) later when I have more time.
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« Reply #404 on: February 08, 2011, 03:10:14 pm »

I'll proofread it as well, but I'll wait for Whaley's changes to be made first so I don't double them.
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