Questions for HiG—deadline 25 January

[mjharper]

Okay, I should have done this a while back, but personal stuff/work/study have all conspired against me recently.

I'd like to propose this thread as a place to collect questions for HiG on any subject, but in particular Abbey & Mayor. If anyone can think of any, or remembers seeing any on forums which needed to be answered, but haven't post 'em here. Remember to check the old clarifications thread as well. Any if anyone thinks of corrections to the questions proposed, feel free to comment.

The plan is to collect everything together by next Friday 25 January (when I finish the ?*=§"$# essay I have to write); I'll get the questions translated over the weekend, and then posted off. Hopefully we'll get the answers back and up and edited into the CAR before the 1 March anniversary…

So, if there's anything you want to ask, or anything you have asked and are peeved that it hasn't yet been answered, now's the time to post!

[mjharper]

John Sweeney sent me these a while back (sorry John):

1) If you use the new three-way tile and the Baron, is the length of the road the longest distance between two ends, or the total number of tiles in the road?
 
2) If I have an Abbey left and I pick the very last tile up and play it to an element where I have a Builder, then is the game over because the last tile (apart from Abbeys) has been played?  Or am I allowed to play my Abbey on my extra turn from the Builder?
 
3) If the player on my right plays the last tile has the game finished?  Or, if I have an Abbey left, can I say, "No I want my turn.  I choose not to take a tile, but to play my Abbey"?
 
4) What is the definition of "connected" for the Wagon?  If two castle walls are touching (maybe even only at a point), can I drive my Wagon from one to another?

Another one just came up on here

5) Can you deploy a wagon to a city, score it, and then move the wagon to another feature, all in one turn? Or can you only move the wagon instead of deploying a normal follower?

[mjharper]

Another one (from here)

6) Blue has a mayor in a city with no pennants. Does the city count as occupied? And if so, when the city is scored, will blue score points? In other words, is a majority of zero 'higher' than no occupation at all?

(something like that) 

[dwhitworth]

Matt,

You may want to consider some or all of these items for confirmation or alternative ruling from HiG:

1. If a player completes a city/road with an Abbey tile and their builder is on the city/road, does the city/road get 'extended" by the Abbey, and if so does the player get another tile?
(?? No - because the Abbey contains no road/city segments ??)

2. If cities with trade goods are completed by placement of an Abbey tile, are the goods tokens awarded as usual to the player placing the Abbey tile?

3. If an Abbey tile completes a road/city that is unnocupied can the player use a meeple from their hand to complete and score that feature in that turn - as they could with placement of a road or city tile?
(?? No. Because that would require the meeple to be placed on the Abbey tile (the "just placed" tile) and Abbey tiles can only contain monks because there is no road/city segment on the Abbey tile on which to place the meeple. ??)

4. Can the wagon move to an incomplete, empty, Abbey tile when the road/city it is on is completed? That is: is the road/city "adjacent" to the Abbey even though the Abbey tile has no city/road segment?

5. Can the wagon "support" a builder like any other follower? (There may be an answer to this on the forum, but I can't find it and the rules don't really say yes or no. Special Wagon properties again))

Another thought:
Seems to me that each expansion adds more amd more complexity to these rules. Your valiant efforts at consolidation and clarification are considerable help and sooner or later your version "X" of the rules will become the classic, but much of this could be avoided if HiG (not to mention RGG) did more adequate testing of expansions and revisions before publication. What they need is a group of dedicated experienced players who enjoy trying out new things and are expert at finding conflicts and issues in game play . . . . Oh! (surprise!!) I have just described the members of this forum. Is there a chance that HiG at least might consider using (some of) the members here as "beta testers". I bet we would find out 99% of the issues within a few games and save them a fortune in later correction and adaptation . . . it would pay them to do it and make for better games. Software developers do it all the time. We might get (with legal limitations etc) early copies of the expansions for our efforts . . .
Just an idea to consider when writing to HiG.

D

[dwhitworth]

I made the mistake of asking some other players for contributions to this list . . . . so here are three more:

When playing Abbeys&Mayors and the Count:

1. Does the placement of a barn, that causes another player's farm to be scored without immediate score to the placing player, count as an opportunity to move a meeple to the City of Carcassonne? While there is no immediate score to the placing player, the barn is certain to score at the end of the game.

2. Does the placing of a barn, and the subsequent scoring of the farm, count as an opportunity to REMOVE a meeple from the City of Carcassonne? The rules currently say that a meeple may only be removed to a farm "at the end of the game", but that was created before A&M and the barn.

Also:

3. If a player completes a city that contains resources, but scores no points for the city, does the acquisition of resources count as (potential) scoring and forbid the player moving a meeple to the City of Carcassonne? If the reply is that you can move the meeple because the scoring is only potential, then what about a play that acquires the resources that secure a monopoly and therefore make later scoring certain?

D

[mjharper]

I made the mistake of asking some other players for contributions to this list . . . . so here are three more:

No, that's cool—keep 'em comin'
 

[Scott]

I took a quick look through this forum and came up with the following:

• Can I place a follower on a 0-height tower foundation to prevent it's use, or only at a height of 1+?
• If your city is besieged with a tile from the Cathars expansion, and there is an Abbey or Cloister adjoining, can the mayor or wagon escape?
• If you have one knight in a besieged city, and another knight in another besieged city, and both besieged cities are adjacent to cloisters, can both knights escape at the end of your turn, or can you only choose to evacuate one per turn?

I thought there was more than that though.

[Scott]

I did a search on my own posts and found two threads that may contain some unanswered questions, but I'm not sure if I'll have time to go through them before the deadline.

A lot of back and forth discussion about the River II:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=77.0
I remember that some questions got resolved, but there might be a few that weren't.

Some issues with the unreleased Heretic expansion:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=203.0
The problems have to do with the situation where both a cloister and cult place are completed at the same time. Firstly, who scores? Secondly, is there a Count opportunity?

[mjharper]

Another question about heretics:

Can a knight in a besieged city from the Cathars escape via a shrine, or only via a cloister?

[mjharper]

Couple of other things for the new expansion:

1) The rules say that you may not place a shrine in such a way that it neighbours several cloisters, and vice versa. But can I place a shire in such a way that it makes a cloister neighbour several shrines?
(Imagining this scenario:

1  2  3
4  5  6
7  8  9

There's a cloister on 5 and a shrine on 6. I place a shrine on 4. There's only one cloister on a neighbouring tile, but now I've forced the cloister into an 'illegal' placement.

To be honest, I totally expect the answer 'no' to this one—but I can also imagine it being exactly the scenario awkward players come up with, so we'd better ask…)

2) Can I parachute followers into a shrine from Carcassonne?

3) How does parachuting affect the challenge? For example, if I place the last tile of a previously empty cloister, can I parachute a monk in, claim a challenge to a neighbouring shrine, and immediately declare victory?

(This one is going to need some formulation, because it relates to 2) above, and to Scott's question. If the answer to 2) is 'no' then that gives an unfair advantage to cloisters—doubly unfair because there are more of them. And if the answer to Scott's question is what I imagine it will be—that the player placing that tile claims victory—then does parachuting still allow the placing player to claim victory? Or does the fact that the other feature was occupied at the precise moment of tile placement grant them victory, regardless of whether a follower parachuted in for an instant challenge. If you see what I mean…)

[mjharper]

And yet more:

1) If the fairy is on the same tile as the losing heretic or monk in a challenge, does the player still score the bonus 3 points? (What if the loser's building is incomplete—and what if, as in Scott's question, the last time completes both?)

2) Say I have a heretic engaged in a challenge with a monk, and I place the tile which completes the monk's cloister, so that the monk scores 9 points and I score 0. Can I still move a follower to CC in this case?

I really must sleep…
 

[mjharper]

I can't take much more of this…

1) Can a shrine challenge an abbey, and vice versa?

(Anyone know where the 'off' switch is for the brain?)

[mjharper]

So, it occurs to me that some of the questions I posted last night would also apply to the magic portal… must remember that.

And:

1) If you combine Count, King and Consorts with The River II, you will now have two forks. Obviously one of those gets placed immediately, but should the other one be mixed in with the rest of the river tiles, or put to one side?

[mjharper]

5. Can the wagon "support" a builder like any other follower? (There may be an answer to this on the forum, but I can't find it and the rules don't really say yes or no. Special Wagon properties again))

I don't get this one… clarification, please!

Edit: Oh, I get it. Can a builder be dependant on a wagon…

[mjharper]

If your city is besieged with a tile from the Cathars expansion, and there is an Abbey or Cloister adjoining, can the mayor or wagon escape?

That one's already been answered: the answer is Yes (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=191.0)