Troubadours

[Ailurus]

Thanks Chris for your PM. Indeed, since it has been rather quiet over here for some time, I forgot to check the topics...

Nice that some people like the idea! Unfortunately, I don't have much time to work on it right now, but please feel free to make a start!
I just re-read the topic, and I like my "revised" version the most (without roads I think, otherwise it would become a bit elaborate I think).

So in short:
Every player should have two "Troubadour" tokens when the game starts (didn't mention this earlier, but I think only one Troubadour per player should be allowed).
When the player gets a Troubadour-tile, he may choose to deploy a follower (normal, big, mayor) as a Troubadour (or just as a normal Knight).
Every subsequent OWN turn, he has the option to either move the Troubadour to another UNFINISHED city, or keep the Troubadour on its place. In this case, at the end of a turn, a token should be placed under the Troubadour.
When an own new turn begins and there are TWO tokens under the Troubadour, it must move. When there are no unfinished cities with a Troubadour-tile, the Troubadour goes back to stock (it is possible that a rather large city is now unclaimed).

Summarized, it has a certain risk factor to place the Troubadour, and adds a nice historical touch

I'm not sure yet whether 12 tiles is the right amount, it seems a bit too much. Furthermore, when you pick a Troubadour-tile and place it in an already occupied city, should you be able to place your Troubadour (I would say yes, but then 12 tiles seem too much)? Normally, this is against the rules of course.

[CKorfmann]

Here are my thoughts.  I agree on the follower and the big follower, but I don't really swallow the Mayor.  If he wasn't already a specialized figure, I could see it.  I think it could be argued that the cart would be more appropriate than the Mayor, though I'm not necessarily advocating that.

I like the musical note tokens placed under the Troubadour.  It works...

I think I also like Gwommy's idea of exponentially compounding score for multiple troubadour symbols in the city.

One thing I think we need to work out is how they effect the city.  Am I correct that you have them counting toward the majority?  I guess it makes sense, but I could also see them not counting toward the majority and just trying to make sure they close the city and score (via Gwommy's method) before they get kicked out.  

I wouldn't be too quick to throw out symbols on the roads.  I think that would work just fine.  

As for number of tiles, I would definitely stick with 12, maybe even 15 if you use roads.  If not, 6-8 I guess.

[Ailurus]

Hmm yep, I agree with you on the Mayor. Now I think of it, it would be a bit ridiculous for a Mayor to leave his own city . So I would say, just the normal and large followers. Since there always is some confusion about the cart, let's not include it in the rules.

About the tokens: simple round ones, or like the Cloth/Wood/Grain tokens? The latter option might be confusing.

The main advantage of a Troubadour should be for its "owner", that is, the possibility to claim the majority in a city (that answers one of your questions). Therefore I think it should be allowed to place a Troubadour in an already occupied city. The Troubadour symbols (i.e. the musical instruments) could count as a bonus, sure.

At first I liked the Troubadours-on-the-roads idea, but now I don't see it happening: should a Troubadour move to a next city via a road, or is it just his choice to either go to an unfinished road or unfinished city?

[CKorfmann]

About the tokens: simple round ones, or like the Cloth/Wood/Grain tokens? The latter option might be confusing.

Yes, something simple would be best.  Round or maybe even square.  Square might be easier for people to make at home.

The main advantage of a Troubadour should be for its "owner", that is, the possibility to claim the majority in a city (that answers one of your questions). Therefore I think it should be allowed to place a Troubadour in an already occupied city. The Troubadour symbols (i.e. the musical instruments) could count as a bonus, sure.

Well, in that case, than I think the bonus for the symbol itself should be minimal at best.  Being able to add a follower to a city is a pretty big bonus by itself.  

At first I liked the Troubadours-on-the-roads idea, but now I don't see it happening: should a Troubadour move to a next city via a road, or is it just his choice to either go to an unfinished road or unfinished city?

Yes, if the Troubadour would be allowed to factor into the majority for a city, than roads would not be necessary.

Bump...

[Ailurus]

Square might be easier for people to make at home.

Good point. I think the tokens should have the same shape as the pictures on the tiles (like the one with the Lute in my first post).

Well, in that case, than I think the bonus for the symbol itself should be minimal at best. Being able to add a follower to a city is a pretty big bonus by itself.

Perhaps just three points per Troubadour in your city, when you finish it?

Yes, if the Troubadour would be allowed to factor into the majority for a city, than roads would not be necessary.

Ok, just in a city then. It also works better with my original story line:

To entertain the inhabitants of the cities in the surroundings of Carcassonne, the Troubadours travel to each village, town and city. However, after some time the people get bored with the Troubadour. Therefore, he/she keeps moving...

Please add/change some parts to this background story, writing pieces of text which are pleasent to read are not my strongest point

[loganmann1]

So what is a basic rules outline for this as currently settled on?  With so much discussion I'm a little lost on what is decided and whats still up for debate.

[Ailurus]

Loganmann, there are just 5 posts since your first reply in this topic, these are the changes/new ideas

Yesterday I was telling one of my flatmates about this expansion, he proposed to use a tambourine as tile-icon. I just made something in Blender (3D creation suite), would a small version of this tambourine be a decent tile-icon?



Furthermore, I was thinking about one general troubadour icon, instead of 12 different instruments (like the Lute). I like this latter option more, but I'm afraid I cannot draw those instruments myself. Unless somebody else would like to try some, maybe we should think of just one icon?

[CKorfmann]

As nice as it would be to have 12 different icons, I am inclined to agree that one icon would be easier as well as probably more appropriate.  I actually like the lute icon (or one similar) much better than the tamborine and think it also most appropriate.  

[Ailurus]

Oh, I should have said "watermark" instead of "tile icon", a little confusing indeed. So, I designed the tambourine to be the watermark, the icon for all 12 tiles has yet to be designed.
About the lute, I found a picture of a lute on Google, edited it with GIMP et voila .

[CKorfmann]

Oh, I should have said "watermark" instead of "tile icon", a little confusing indeed. So, I designed the tambourine to be the watermark, the icon for all 12 tiles has yet to be designed.
About the lute, I found a picture of a lute on Google, edited it with GIMP et voila .

Yeah, that makes a difference for sure.    I'm not convinced they need a watermark if they all have an icon, but I suppose it's appropriate. 

[Ailurus]

Would somebody like to work on the artwork of this expansion? We just need a fitting icon for the Troubadour tiles, and an icon for the tokens. Whether or not we'll use the watermark, we can discuss later.

Is there anything unclear about the rules? Additions or comments are always welcome!

[CKorfmann]

I've personally, privately asked a few people, but have had no takers yet.

[Ailurus]

Something like this simple icon might just work:



I'm still not sure whether to include the roads to the Troubadour's domain. The idea remains the same, however: each player can place one Troubadour, which travels from city to (road or) city. This is an opportunity to gain the majority in a city (or on a road).
Furthermore, some bonus points for the one who finishes a city (or road) with one or more Troubadours in it: 2 or 3 points per Troubadour (from multiple players)? Or something like Gantry's plan?

Once the city (or road) with the Troubadour in it is finished, it returns to the supply of the player, becoming a normal meeple again. Later on, a normal meeple can again be deployed as a Troubadour (no Large meeple or Mayor, this would give too much advantage I think). For an example (where both tokens are used), see the first page of the topic.

Ok, to be done:
- Write a nice background story about Troubadours entertaining inhabitants
- Find nice tiles to add to this expansion (preferably tiles that are considered useful but are rare in the official expansions)

[loganmann1]

I really like where this is going.  Personally I like that first Lute graphic you used more then the notes on your last post...but whatever you feel works best then go for it.

[CKorfmann]

I really like where this is going.  Personally I like that first Lute graphic you used more then the notes on your last post...but whatever you feel works best then go for it.

I agree, I much prefer the lute as well.