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Author Topic: My try at a "turn summary" using the current rules.  (Read 29401 times)
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Joff
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« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2011, 12:34:38 am »

I'm not sure if you are missing what I'm saying here.

What I am trying to say is that the rules are not clear if your turn ends with 'forced' scoring after laying a tile that connects a farm with a barn to a farm containing a farmer at Step 3 (of your turn summary), meaning that Step 4, Step 5, Step 6, Step 7, Step 8 would be skipped. It is really a question for HiG to answer, which is why I've brought it up in that thread too. I can see that some problems would occur with this interpretation.

Your Turn Summary interprets the rules to allow 'move the wood' actions before 'forced' scoring occurs, but at present there are differing opinions on when that 'forced' scoring actually occurs and if it end a player's turn or not. If you read the rules pertaining to this situation you will see that both HiG and RGG agree that when placing a tile that connects a farm with a barn to a farm with a farmer, then the farm is scored immediately. What the question is, is what does word 'immediately' mean? Does it mean that 'forced' scoring is the same as normal turn scoring (meaning no more 'move the wood' actions are possible) or does it mean that players are still allowed to 'move the wood' before normal turn scoring or does it mean a second phase of scoring is now possible during a players turn? It is simply not clear.

It is the action of placing the tile that invokes the 'immediate' scoring problem. The rules do not say that after placing the tile (in this situation) that a player is allowed to 'move the wood' before this immediate scoring takes place. It simply says that when placing the tile, then immediate scoring is carried out. The rules make it sound as if it is an exception to the regular rules.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 12:47:31 am by Joff » Logged
Skull One
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« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2011, 09:43:01 am »

What I am trying to say is that the rules are not clear if your turn ends with 'forced' scoring

I can think of at least two items in Carcassonne, of the top of my head, that force scoring "immediately" prior to what your rule lawyers consider normal end of turn scoring and yet I doubt for one second they would ever say "that ends your turn right there".  They would be:

Princess.
Followers on the crown plinths (Wheel of Fate).

So ask them just about those two and explain why they both say "SCORE IMMEDIATELY" but they don't force you to end your turn.
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« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2011, 09:43:48 am »

Immediately, in this case, simply means during the scoring phase of that turn, as opposed to waiting until the end of the game as fields are normally scored.

There is no premature end to the player's turn. Normal placement is still allowed.
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Joff
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« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2011, 01:27:02 pm »

Ok, if we accept what's being said, if I place a tile that adjoins a barn farm with a farmer farm (and assume my follower is the farmer). The farmer is returned to me and scores for the farm. May I now deploy this returned follower to, say the cloister on the placed tile, as my 'move the wood' action?

If my 'move the wood' action occurs before the immediate 'forced' scoring, the farmers are not scored immediately, but after 'moving the wood'.
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Skull One
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« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2011, 01:48:55 pm »

Ok, if we accept what's being said, if I place a tile that adjoins a barn farm with a farmer farm (and assume my follower is the farmer). The farmer is returned to me and scores for the farm. May I now deploy this returned follower to, say the cloister on the placed tile, as my 'move the wood' action?

If my 'move the wood' action occurs before the immediate 'forced' scoring, the farmers are not scored immediately, but after 'moving the wood'.

Oh yeah.  I would allow you to deploy it for sure if you played out the scoring as "immediately".  In fact Step 4 on would be fully in affect after you scored.

I would prefer to see the barn as making the farm a feature and that this new feature is checked for "completion and triggered scoring" any time a tile is placed in the barns area of coverage.  This would end a lot of questions as well as allow for new expansions that don't break the flow of the game.
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