Questions for HiG

[mjharper]

I'm putting together a letter to HiG. How does this sound?

1) Is it really true that pigs and builders can be placed on the same tile as the dragon? The new rules seem to suggest this: when I place a volcano tile, I must move the dragon to that tile, but I can still deploy a builder or pig - to the same tile, surely. Don't they get eaten? Or does the dragon only eat them when it enters a tile?

2) Fairy - feature or tile?

2a) Scenario 1: Player A has a knight in a city. He chooses to place the fairy next to the knight. Then, using a magic gate, he places a farmer on a farm segment on the same tile. Later, the city is completed, and the knight removed. So now there is a farmer on a farm, and a fairy in a city. Question: does the player still receive 1 bonus point for having a fairy on the same tile as a follower? And would a follower on a tower score for being on the same tile? ("Steht zu Beginn des Zuges eines Spielers ein Gefolgsmann dieses Spielers zusammen mit der Fee auf einer Karte, so bekommt dieser Spieler sofort 1 Punkt.")

2b) Scenario 2: the same as Scenario 1 - but if the thief completes the road, does the player score 3 bonus points, even though the fairy is not in the same feature?

2c) Scenario 3: Player A has a knight in a city. He chooses to place the fairy next to the knight. Player B, using a magic gate, places a thief on a road on the same tile. Does Player B score 1 bonus point at the start of his turn as well? And if player B completes the road, does he also score 3 bonus points for being on the same tile as the fairy? (The RGG rules suggest this: "When a feature (city, road, cloister, or farm) with the fairy is scored, the player whose follower stands on the tile with the fairy scores 3 points for standing there."

3) To clarify an earlier question: Can a player allow a follower to escape a besieged city via a cloister, and place the same follower in the city of Carcassonne on the same turn? (when does follower escape happen?)


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Feedback appreciated, as well as suggestions for other questions.

[Hypnotoad]

1) Is it really true that pigs and builders can be placed on the same tile as the dragon?

According to your annotated rules I was under the impression that followers+builders+pigs only fled if they were on a tile as the dragon moved onto it. But it sounds a bit strange that they can sneak up on the dragon like that. I wouldn't object to dragon tiles being off limits completely. On the other hand, builders and pigs aren't followers anymore, so I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't flee at all either.

2) Fairy - feature or tile?

The way I read it, the fairy was placed next to a specific follower, not a tile. But since the fairy protects the whole tile and since 3 points added isn't that much and doesn't happen that often, I'd imagine rephrasing and just giving that bonus to the entire tile would be beneficial to the game.

3) To clarify an earlier question: Can a player allow a follower to escape a besieged city via a cloister, and place the same follower in the city of Carcassonne on the same turn? (when does follower escape happen?)

Looking forward to hearing about this one 

I'll add questions if I remember them.

[mjharper]

1) Is it really true that pigs and builders can be placed on the same tile as the dragon?

According to your annotated rules I was under the impression that followers+builders+pigs only fled if they were on a tile as the dragon moved onto it. But it sounds a bit strange that they can sneak up on the dragon like that. I wouldn't object to dragon tiles being off limits completely. On the other hand, builders and pigs aren't followers anymore, so I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't flee at all either.

The scenario arises when a volcano tile is placed - the HiG rules say that although you can't deploy a follower, you can deploy a builder or pig, or move the fairy. Since you can only deploy a builder and pig to the tile just placed, and since a dragon must be moved to a volcano tile, it seems to suggest that builders and pigs can coexist with dragons.

2) Fairy - feature or tile?

The way I read it, the fairy was placed next to a specific follower, not a tile. But since the fairy protects the whole tile and since 3 points added isn't that much and doesn't happen that often, I'd imagine rephrasing and just giving that bonus to the entire tile would be beneficial to the game.

I thought the fairy went to a feature, and that only a follower in the same feature would score the bonus - but there's a debate raging on BGG at the moment, and I seem to be outnumbered…

I suppose I should as about parachuting meeples too…

[Gantry]

I haven't played enough games with the dragon to come across these scenarios, but the questions sound valid to me.

[Hypnotoad]

1) Is it really true that pigs and builders can be placed on the same tile as the dragon?

According to your annotated rules I was under the impression that followers+builders+pigs only fled if they were on a tile as the dragon moved onto it. But it sounds a bit strange that they can sneak up on the dragon like that. I wouldn't object to dragon tiles being off limits completely. On the other hand, builders and pigs aren't followers anymore, so I wouldn't be shocked if they didn't flee at all either.

The scenario arises when a volcano tile is placed - the HiG rules say that although you can't deploy a follower, you can deploy a builder or pig, or move the fairy. Since you can only deploy a builder and pig to the tile just placed, and since a dragon must be moved to a volcano tile, it seems to suggest that builders and pigs can coexist with dragons.

Yes I figured that's what it meant, but I still think it's more true to the dragons purpose if it simply couldn't co-exist with any meeples, builders or pigs.

Snatched from BGG:

2) if I have a meeple next to the fairy in a feature that I complete (hence I get +3) but otherwise don't get points for the feature (ex: one meeple in a city, another player has two and scores), am I allowed to move a figure to Carcassonne at the end of the turn?

I'd say no. Like I argued on a previous issue, your placement of the tile should cause you to not gain any points. (In any feature, it's brought up in the rules that you can't score points from any completed feature, even it if it's one that has no other followers in than yours) After all you *are* allowed to move the fairy before scoring, and thus not receive the 3 bonus points, but then again this is something you chose to do and thus you've already moved and can't move a follower to Carcassonne.

I believe that moving followers to Carcassonne *should* be hard, as deploying them can be extremely distruptive to scoring, you can snatch a helluva lot of points and blocking you from deploying it can be very costly in terms of meeples and points given away to be able to move the count. So you'll have to plan ahead and not place the fairy there if you want to use this feature as a means to getting followers to Carcassonne.

If you're indeed forced to move the fairy there by the dragon, well then that's just another part of the dragons disruptive powers in my view. I don't believe it currently has enough as it is, except with very few expansions in play.

[Tobias]

If I were a dragon, I'd eat both pigs and builders. Feh!

[mjharper]

Okay, got some answers from Georg Wild at HiG… (translated here)

1) Is it really true that pigs and builders can be placed on the same tile as the dragon? The new rules seem to suggest this: when I place a volcano tile, I must move the dragon to that tile, but I can still deploy a builder or pig - to the same tile, surely. Don't they get eaten? Or does the dragon only eat them when it enters a tile?
Answer: The dragon eats everything within its reach (on its tile), regardless of whether it moves, is deployed or simply stands there.

2) Fairy - feature or tile?
Answer: Neither nor. The fairy is directly connected to a follower. In special cases, such as those you described, it is probably worth removing the fairy as soon as confusion may arise.

3) To clarify an earlier question: Can a player allow a follower to escape a besieged city via a cloister, and place the same follower in the city of Carcassonne on the same turn? (when does follower escape happen?)
Answer: The knight escapes at the end of the turn, and so cannot be re-deployed in the same turn.

And in general: Are the Big Box rules going to become the standard (i.e. 4th edition) rules from now on? Will the HiG FAQ reflect this? Will all future expansion be designed with Big Box rules in mind?
Answer: Yes, the Big Box rules will be used for the next edition.

I wrote back to clarify 1) but haven't heard anything yet.

[mjharper]

So, the logic behind the pig, builder and volcano is to clarify that they aren't followers anymore. You can deploy them to the volcano tile with the dragon, but they'll be eaten immediately. But the point is that you can deploy them, while you can't deploy a follower. And Georg says that they made it clear just in case that makes a difference in later expansions - being prepared for all eventualities.

[Gantry]

Can we take it to mean that "...for the next edition" the implication is that there is definitely another expansion in the works?  Ask him what it is, let me know in a PM and I'll put it up as a news scoop!

[mjharper]

I certainly got the impression that there are plans - that was the whole point about the builder and the pig - but on the other hand, I didn't get the impression that the plans were very precise…

[canada steve]

So to sumarise question 1 you can place the pig or builder but you loose it straight away  Seems a complete waste of time to me then

I think a new expansion should be for plagues & pestilance. Plagues for cities and pests for farms, could be a real interesting one. Or maybe I should write another variant but I think this one would require tiles.