Cloisters and Shrines question

[Abby]

Hi all - 

First time posting here, and I already love this community.  I just discovered Carcassonne about a month ago and can't get enough of it.  So down to business:

We recently bought the Cult, Siege, and Creativity set (thinking about making locusts to challenge farms as the creativity piece...) and we're running into a few problems with the cloisters/shrines.

I read somewhere that you can "challenge" your own claimed cloister with your own shrine and vice versa, but I don't understand what that means exactly.  If I play a cloister but don't claim it, can I also play an (unclaimed) shrine next to it?  Or can I have them both claimed and get the full 18 points for it (provided I finish them)? 

I understand the rule about placing a shrine next to many cloisters and vice versa, but I'm confused about when you can and cannot play shrines and cloisters close to each other.

Thanks,
Abby

[Deatheux]

you can challenge when an opponent meeple are placed next to your cloister/shrine/abbey... the first to complete the cult place gains 9 points and remove the opponent meeple from the challenged cult place.

[Novelty]

If I play a cloister but don't claim it, can I also play an (unclaimed) shrine next to it?

Yes, provided that it is the only shrine next to it, and the shrine is not next to 2 or more cloisters.

Or can I have them both claimed and get the full 18 points for it (provided I finish them)? 

You only get 18 points if you complete both at the same time (with the same tile).  If you complete only one, then both meeples come off at the same time and you get 9 points.

[Abby]

So if I can only get 18 points when placing the last tile simultaneously, then would it make any sense to claim a cloister next to an unclaimed shrine?  Or is that just not allowed?

[Joff]

There is no challenge when placing a follower on a shrine or cloister next to an unclaimed cloister/shrine. If the unclaimed one is completed first, as there is no challenge, the meeple on the claimed one is not removed.

[koolkat]

Novelty and Joff have the complete right answers.

[Abby]

Excellent, that clears it up - thanks!

[koolkat]

I'm just a simple member, but you're wellcome. That's what we're here for...

[Novelty]

Yeah, feel free to ask any more questions.  We may not get the answers immediately for you, but we'll get there...

[koolkat]

Novelty, speaking of that, I didn't forget your favour. I just didn't have the opportunity yet.

[Novelty]

koolkat no worries if you haven't got the time.  Just let me know when you do.

Oh and Abby, please do remember that the Abbey tile is also considered a cloister!