PIG / Farm Scoring

[Tobias]

You mean there are multiple pig heard tiles? I am pretty sure that the only pig heard tile was in the River II. Therefore the River II tile is the precedent on pig heard tile. Plus as to counter your road example, the base set rules of Carcassonne explicitly state that the road tiles may contain decorative accents, such as your afore mentioned houses, and have no effect on the tile.

There are two identical tiles in River II, unless my memory has gone toally bonkers (which it might have!).

You say that the rules state that a road tile is a road tile even if there are additional adornments on it, and you also state that a pig herd tile is not a pig herd tile for very the same reason. A cloister is still a cloister even if it shares a tile with a little house, or a road or a city. In fact, every single feature is legal, no matter what else is on the tile.

But not the pig herd tile from GQ11, because it also has cows on it.  

There is no, and I stress no, official rules regarding the GQ11 tiles. I reject Jay's afterthought as a ruling. It is his house rules, nothing else. I reject his ruling because it is stupid.

[Dagou]

I reject Jay's afterthought as a ruling. It is his house rules, nothing else.

Jay is the producer of this expansion... not Hans Im Gluck. If Hans Im Gluck were to give an official ruling, would you agree with it regardless of the logic you see?

Granted Jay does not seem to take interest in having appropriate rules for Carcassonne (it did take him many years to change his mind on the farmers rule). But in the end, he is still the producer of this expansion whether we like it or not.

I'll mention it again, we use it as a pig heard tile. But as it goes for having the closest thing to an "official ruling", it's not a pig heard tile. This last statement is only valid if Jay did actually mention that the tile is not a pig heard tile, as referenced by Matt in the Carc.

[djdahmer]

Isn't that a bit like saying a pig flies because pigs fly? 

I do not understand this analogy. There is some proverbial useage of "flying pigs" in English. Is that what you mean?

It was merely an attempt at humour - I couldn't resist the link between the pig tile & "when pigs fly", but my point there was that you were using a self-referential definition, effectively "it's a pig tile because it's a pig tile".
To be honest I can't see what the issue is; officially pig tile or no, you can play it any way you like. That's one of the things I love about Carcassonne. I also don't understand your refection of Jay's ruling - since he produced it isn't he the one who should say what it is? Would you reject rulings made by the producers of fan-made expansions simply because they aren't HiG?

Regardless, you seem to be very worked up about this. I might bow out of the debate now before it gets heated.

[Tobias]

Regardless, you seem to be very worked up about this. I might bow out of the debate now before it gets heated.

I am not worked up I guess that sometimes the language barrier will rear its ugly head and make me look more agitated than I am.

Another analogy is: "let's call a spade a spade". In the link it says it might be offensive, which I have never heard of before. Why would it be that?

To be honest I can't see what the issue is; officially pig tile or no, you can play it any way you like. That's one of the things I love about Carcassonne. I also don't understand your refection of Jay's ruling - since he produced it isn't he the one who should say what it is? Would you reject rulings made by the producers of fan-made expansions simply because they aren't HiG?

Yes, I would. Not that I use any fan expansions. C suffers from too many expansions.

By produce, do you mean design or make the tiles? The expansion was published by a now dead game magazine, and there were, as earlier mentioned, no rules included.

I can play it the way I want to, but when teaching the rules to someone and saying: "you will get extra points for a farm with a pig herd on it, unless it is a pig herd with cows, which will not yield any points, since ... well, I do not know why, but I guess cows are evil", and then someone will point to another tile with cows and ask if those cows also are evil, and I will have to say that, "no, they are not; cows are only evil if mixed with pigs, but I still do not know why that is so", and so on. I would feel really stupid.

How do people who do not play it as a pig herd tile rationalise it?

Jay is the producer of this expansion... not Hans Im Gluck. If Hans Im Gluck were to give an official ruling, would you agree with it regardless of the logic you see?

I would still think it was a stupid ruling, but yes, I would accept it as official. I would still not play it that way though.

Granted Jay does not seem to take interest in having appropriate rules for Carcassonne (it did take him many years to change his mind on the farmers rule). But in the end, he is still the producer of this expansion whether we like it or not.

Yes. Sometimes Jay's word is disregarded, and sometimes they are the rule. Granted he did it right with the insult that was Graf, König und Konsorten, and instead published something else. Apart from that though he pretends that he does not even know there are differnet editions of the rules. In the CAR Jay's rules has always been second rate compared to HiG's.

Again: The GQ11 did not come with any rules, because no rules were necessary.

I'll mention it again, we use it as a pig heard tile. But as it goes for having the closest thing to an "official ruling", it's not a pig heard tile. This last statement is only valid if Jay did actually mention that the tile is not a pig heard tile, as referenced by Matt in the Carc.

I have no reason to distrust Matt – far from it. That is not the intent of these ravings. 

[CKorfmann]

C suffers from too many expansions.

Tobias, I noticed by your frequent repetition of this sentiment, that you seem to feel very strongly about this issue.  You are not required to purchase any new expansions, or are you a completionist and find this to be a moral dilema?   

Perhaps this is a new topic.

[Tobias]

are you a completionist and find this to be a moral dilema?   

Oh, yes! 

Not only that though. Since expansions (almost) never are designed with other expansions in mind, there is bound to be collisions. In Carcassonne the CAR is the result of that, and speaks for itself. In other games, such as for example Arkham Horror, the game gets either too diluted or completely bogged down.

But, yeah, this should maybe be split to its own topic. I will give it some thougt.

[aeoliner]

Another analogy is: "let's call a spade a spade". In the link it says it might be offensive, which I have never heard of before. Why would it be that?

It could be offensive because, historically, the term "spade" was a derogatory term for an African American, it is still offensive if used to refer to a person, but is not offensive when referring to the farming tool or card suit. So don't call a person a "spade" and there should be no issue of offending then, at least in terms of the word "spade".