When does the game end?

[Newbie1]

Tried to search both this and another forum with no clear resolution to a fairly simple question.

In our group we have a debate on when the game should end. (We have the basic version which includes the river.)

Do you play until all the tiles are used (which may allow those who played first or second an extra turn and perhaps an advantage) or do you stop play a tile or two early, depending on number of players, so that all players get equal turns (which may leave 1 to #Players-1 tiles unused).

Thank you.

[meepleater]

Stopping when all have had the same turns seems fairer, but I believe the rules are when the tiles run out. However, you could make a house rule out of what you think is fairer...

[mjharper]

It should be a fairly simple question, but it isn't, because of the number of expansions which give you special tiles and special 'abilities'. Many people don't use the builder at all because the double turn it enables is 'unfair'.

AFAIK, the situation at the moment is that play ends when ALL LAND TILES have been played. You don't have to make sure everyone has the same number of turns. But if you have, say, an unused Abbey in you hand at the end of the game, you aren't allowed to play that.

I have a sneaking suspicion that RGG is a little different here, but the ALL LAND TILES rule stands whatever.

Incidentally, the question of who starts the game is just as complicated 

[Newbie1]

Thanks for the responses.   I promise not to start a thread on determining when the game starts or who starts it.

[CKorfmann]

This question has never come up in my games.  I think the rule has always been understood to play until the tiles are gone.  It's not that easy to determine how many turns everyone will have, especially when you employ the builder.  I don't think the builder is unfair simply because everyone has the opportunity to use one.  The game is all built around the luck of the draw anyway.  I think if you play the last tile and it happens to be one more tile than everyone else had, it won't be much help if you have a dry spell and don't get the tiles you need.  So I guess the moral of the story is when it's based on luck, it won't be fair.

[Newbie1]

We only have the basic game plus the river.  I did play with the builder once and it seemed reasonable to play until the tiles were gone since it would have been tedious to track how many tiles each person played (and getting those extra plays seemed part of the skill of the game).

However in the basic game, it is pretty easy to determine if there are enough tiles left for everyone to have another turn.  Since it seems likely that each additional turn would give you expected positive points, there were some who thought that it would reduce the impact of luck (who went first or second) and others who thought that all tiles should be used.

Thanks again for the responses.

[Novelty]

The clarifications for the Abbey from HiG clearly indicate that the game ends when all the tiles (except for any in hand) has been used up.  I find it interesting that there are people who try to ensure that everyone gets equal numbers of turns.  I think that went out the window when Rivers was introduced (last person to play the Lake gets to play the first non-river tile).  Of course T&B complicated that a lot and now A&M has the extra tile in hand rule.