Carcassonne Central

A while ago I created this mini-expansion at

 http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/info/36868

But I need some help... is there anyone who could make the tiles and the rules look more 'professional'?
 Or could I have some feedback?

(What this expansion does is it adds tithe barns which can either give you a reward or can tithe you, apothecaries are added which benefit everything except cloisters, a new trade good with special rules, and a few new combinations, such as a field running beneath a city)

Welcome to CC, meepleater.

I saw this expansion a while back and was impressed by it.  With regards to the tithe barn though, 7 and 10 seems a little low to me.  I would have liked 9 and 15 to make it more worthwhile fighting over.  With regards to the new cloisters, I think these should be replaced with tithe barns.  Afterall, there are 5 apothecaries but only 3 tithe barns at the moment, and I feel that more tithe barns would be appreciated.  I like the road tunnel tile and the city bridge tile as well, but I think these dilute the expansion.  Perhaps these tiles (and the cloisters) would be better in a no-new-rules GQ11 type expansion (with additional tiles).  Things for you to consider.

With regards to better looking tiles, below is a link to request new tiles.  Post in that thread to get yourself in the queue and I'll try to knock out the tiles to your satisfaction.  BTW, I think your tiles look good.

With regards to the rules... well, I guess I can do it for you when everything's done, provided you allow us to host it here at CC (you may post it elsewhere too).

Once again, welcome to CC!

Thanks, I was a little nervous about my first post.

I had created some extra no-rule tiles but I considered that they weren't as good as the others to be included. A good idea for the tithe barns, hower 9 is to odd for me (don't ask what made me say 7), so how about 10 and 17 points? (I guess I just like 7 ;))
Yes, I could create some more tithe barns too. I think I'll work on it more tomorrow to get it up to scratch. (V.2 was only just approved by BGG, so it's a bit annoying that I need to make a v.3 so quickly.
Sure, of course I wouldn't mind if it was hosted on CC, just wait until I get v.3 done first though.

I'll post the link to v.3 sometime when it's done in the thread you mentioned so you can make the tiles look nice.

Thanks for being so welcoming!

10 and 17 is fine.  9 is from scoring cloisters, any less than that and it wouldn't be worth as much as cloisters.

I look forward to v.3 then :)

Have finished v.3

Is there some way I can post it on here as the file size is too big (the zip file is 600kb+).
It might be a while until is is up on bgg, so I'll let you know I have changed the rules to 10 and 17 regarding tithe barns, and have gotten rid of the other four random tiles (and made four more tithe barns.)

You can email it to me.  I'll send you a private message regarding where to email.

Any more suggestions, comments etc?


Other than that, I think it's finished...

There will probably be some comments when the pdf rules file is posted here.  Hopefully it's nothing more than typos :)  I'll start working on the rules.  Remember to post in the thread linked in my signature so that I can queue the tiles for you.

Your file can be downloaded here (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/apothecariesntithes.v3.zip).

Edit: I have trouble opening it though :(

Posted.

Thanks a lot for everything that you are doing, btw.

I'm having trouble opening your v3 file.  Any chance you can send me the files individually without the zip?

you might have to wait for a day or so, the hard drive I saved it on is being updated or something and I can't access it anymore  :-\

No worries, it can wait.

I'm reading through the v2 rules again and I have the following questions:

*If there's a tie for the barn and there's also a tie for the owner of the field, who loses the points?
*I think 17 is a bit too much for the barn.  How about 14 (which is twice 7?)
*The road and the field part of the apothecary is too complicated to keep track IMO.  I think it should be removed and made a separate expansion with a separate icon on roads and farms (but it would be great if it still used herb tokens).
*The exchange of herb tokens again is a bit complicated to keep track of.  In a mega game, with tracking for so many other things, this will probably be a pain to keep track of.  I would suggest removing the separate scoring for exchanged tokens.

No, problem was fixed quicker than I expected, and I emailed files :)

Yes, 14 points is okay.
Okay, the road part can go, a bit hesitant on the field, but it does complicate seiges, pig herds, barns etc. so i guess that can go.
Not sure what you mean about herb tokens though...

Well, it gives you 5 points at the end of the game, but if you got it in an exchange it gives 10 points.  That's a bit difficult to keep track of, even with 5 of the tokens...

Edit: Got the files and I've finished making the Apothecaries.  BTW, you haven't commented on the fact that I'm removing the flag and the stall from the tile.  It'll just have the icon.  I hope that's OK.

Well, I have no idea if the tiles are OK or not, but here's the first draft anyways.  Click on the image to download the pdf file.

Whoops, the 10 points if you get it in a trade must have been a typo. It's only supposed to be ever worth 5 points. The apothecaries look nice! :)
Aren't the tithe barns a bit small? I think they could be a bit bigger, but the tokens are good as well.

Thanks a lot! Big improvement!

You're welcome.  Sorry the tithe barns are a bit small, but since you can't place meeples on them, I didn't want them taking up "real estate" and squeezing the other elements to the edges.

okay.

Great job!

The rules are about a quater done btw.  I'll try to get something up for review this week.

Nice. I can understand about the tithe barns now...

btw, do you know where I could order blank tiles from and for how much?

Australia?  Your best bet would be to get some european to order it for you from HiG.  Failing that, send koolkat a PM to ask him how.

Thanks... well, back to making them from thick card ...

Are the tiles finished, or are you still thinking of editing them at all?

If you are happy with them, they are finished.  If you aren't... well... I'll call them finished ;D.  Seriously though, if you find something that needs changing, do let me know.

I think they're finished...

OK, I'll call the tiles finished then.  The rules are still coming along.

I've made all the tiles and tokens, and they are all totally awesome! ;D Thanks a lot for them. Haven't played with the tithe barns yet, but I'm sure the'll work great...

LOL, I've just finished watching a Disney Film when I read this and the thought that went through my mind was "Carcassonne Central, where all your Caracassonne dreams come true!".  ;D

I'm thinking of designing a few new tithe barn combinations... do you think that that would make too many tithe barns? You could fix these up like the others...

Well, you can go ahead and make more barn combinations, but if you do so, you might want to make a few more apothecaries as well.  Then you can make the herb tokens normal trade goods just like the trade goods from T&B (less things to remember = better).

Anyways, here are your rules (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/antrules01.pdf), although I think you should add more tiles and change the herb token scoring.

Wow! Great!

Can the herb tokens be traded for the T&B goods chits as I originally wrote? That was one of the main reasons I added the herb tokens...

Other than than, you've done a fantastic job! Thanks a lot!

No, sorry, I forgot to mention that having an apothecary in a city only gives 5 points if that city is besieged...

Good idea.. added to the forum newsticker!

I thought you said no trade.  My bad.  I'll add it into the next version.  I forgot about the apothecary giving half points if it was besieged and half point at the end of the game if it was uncompleted.  I'll add those into the next version as well.

I've also got your 6 tiles.  Do you think you can make 6 more so that I can make a second sheet?

Edit: Gantry, where's the newsticker?

hmm... I have no need to make any involving forests as I don't use the forest expansion, but you can add some tithe barns into tiles which involve forests... (but, still they must remain in fields)

I had the time so here are the new tiles, and the updated rules.  No more new tiles please... if you want new tiles, start a new expansion for it, otherwise, this expansion will never be complete :)  I've not included tiles with Forest because I think that warrants its own expansion.

Updated rules (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/antrules02.pdf)
New Tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/anttiles2.pdf)

Edit: OK, please read through and see if there are any more things that needs changing.  Let's aim to get this completed before the end of the year is up :)

Assuming you have the forum header section expanded (+/- on the right side), it is a small line of text immediately above the forum menu, below your avatar.

wow, tiles are nice!

The rules are good... did you mention an apothecary in a besieged city, or did I just miss that?

Edit: Just a thought; when using K&S, should an apothecary count as say, 2 extra tiles to help get the king?

I don't think apothecaries should count extra to help the king.  It already gives extra points AND tokens that can be exchanged.  I think it is too good already.  Nothing in the existing game does that.  Making it better would just unbalance the game.

And here's v3 of rules (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/antrules03.pdf) with the sieged/besieged cities part added in.

very good...

I think that for the herb tokens you stated that you may immediately trade it with another person, but how about clarifying it a bit further by saying soemthing like 'after that turn, no further exchange may be made'.

Also, I have changed my mind about who gets the herb token/s.

Previously;
1. Owner.
2. Person who has the least goods.
3. Placer of the finishing tile of the city.

I think that 2 is a bit irrational and possibly not fair... at any rate something about it anoys me...

apart from that I think that it's almost completed...

OK, revised to version 4 (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/antrules04.pdf)

good as well... possibly unfinished apothecaries do not score? Or apothecaries do not stack?

Almost finished ;D

They don't stack as they are written.  But it will be nice to add a footnote to say this.  I will add it in the final version.  However, like all trade goods, they give the trade tokens in a completed city - that is stacked.

Also, there is no statement that an unfinished apothecaries (how are they finished anyways?  do you mean apothecaries in unfinished cities?) score anything.

Edit: Anything more?  If there is nothing more by Christmas Eve, I'm gonna assume that the rules are completed ;D

Yes, incompleted cities with an apothecary  ;D

It's Christmas morning here in Australia...

I guess this is like the Christmas roast... done :)  Zip file (3.5MB) (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/images/download/expansions/apothecariesntithes.zip).

Brilliant.

You can find it on the Public Downloads (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=49&Itemid=62) page as well.

Ideally, I was hoping to have updated the FoY and Brewery files in the dowload section before I posted this, but since I have been unable to do that I am going to begin this anyway:

The revision of my first expansion, Apothecaries and Tithes, has been the most complex/ involved so far, involving several different 'threads':

Firstly, as much as I didn't want to do it, I figured due to the nature of the revision that tithe barns should be split off and be a separate expansion. The new title to this part is 'That there may be food in my house' (part of a quotation from Malachi, the full quote is in the rules document). There is also a new watermark and a reduced number of tiles. The new tiles+rules can be found here: http://www.mediafire.com/?miqw0r4g668yi26

Secondly, herb trade goods are now being separated from apothecaries and are being changed into salt trade goods, and will be combined with cocoa traders, which will be renamed Salt and Cocoa Traders (or perhaps something a little more imaginative). More on this one later...

And finally, what is the fate of the poor old apothecary? Despite having lost its rules to salt traders and split off from tithe barns, apothecaries will still be around, and given their own, completely new, rules as the Apothecaries expansion.

The rules aren't quite finished yet, but here is a sneak peek:
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss294/meepleater/image2.jpg)

The apothecary expansion is finished! Rules+ tiles can be found here: http://www.mediafire.com/?d5nn7uk7ichra0r

Take a look and let me know what you think!

We enjoyed a game a few days ago using the Tithe Barn expansion (short name!).

It was quite a wild ride at times. Good fun.

Question 1. If you place a tile which both completes a tithe barn as well as completing a feature at the same time - does a follower that is on that feature (city/road), count when numbering up the number of followers on the TitheBarn tiles?

In other words, does the tithe barn scoring happen simultaneously to the scoring of the feature OR - is the tithe barn scored after the follower on the now completed feature has been removed?

Point 2. In our opinion, the scoring is a bit high, perhaps a little too influential. Nonetheless it made it pretty interesting.

Good work.

Thanks for sharing! In regards to question 1, tithe barn scoring would be simultaneous, so if followers on now-completed features were within range, then they would count.

As for point 2, what sort of point reduction would you recommend? I normally play larger games, so I haven't found them overly influential, but for smaller games I can see your point.

Yes, you're right, with larger games it would be less noticeable.

When we played there was usually a lot of action on the tithe barn tiles (so 9 tithe barns = around 100 points of scoring or thereabouts). On that occasion we were playing a relatively small game (2-3 expansions i think)

Getting whooped with a 14 point drop is also pretty massive - but i like adding the risk element for placing farmers.

All in all though, I would still reduce it a bit. maybe 6 (for max # followers) and 4 (or even 3, for the farmer). Total of 9 or 10 for the Tithe Barn winner, and likewise a 9 or 10 drop for the farmer who gets stung.

We'll play it again sometime soon, and see how it goes, I might even try the lower scoring option and let you know.