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Title: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: Novelty on July 01, 2009, 12:17:13 am This is a 2 tile expansion based on the original ideas by Jabberwocky:
Roman Road I propose a single piece, a stretch of a single straight road going across the square, but with a major caravan drawn traveling along it and perhaps an obelisk or arch or some other imposing signpost. This piece is The King's Road. The rules of this piece are as follows: Graphicwise, there'll be an image along the road as suggested by Jabberwocky. (I would prefer a big black obsidian pillar like a miniature Washington memorial in D.C., but that will be up to whoever is making the tile.)1) Once this piece is in play, all further road tiles drawn must attach to the King's Road if there is any legal way for them to do so unless that piece would cap an end the road. If the piece would cap the road, it is the player's choice whether to cap the King's Road or not. 2) Any player who extends the King's Road may add a meeple to claim the road, even if the road as a whole is already claimed. 3) If an Inn appears along the King's Road, the King's Road scores partial points at the end of the game even if it is not capped (score 1 pt per tile). This results in lots of meeple traveling this major highway, a highway that has a strong potential to get very long. Roman Temple (formerly Parthenon) Parthenon: As the cathedral is to the cloister, so the Parthenon is to the shrine [aka cult place]. Like a cathedral, the Parthenon adds one point per tile to the value of a city. But if both the Parthenon and a cathedral are in the same city, they cancel each other out. (If anyone has a better name for this tile, please suggest it. I stayed away from mosque and temple because neither of those were the pagan religion of the cult. The Parthenon isn't either, but it is from a religion more cult-ish by today's standards than the other two.) Graphic wise, the Roman Temple will look like a Greek Temple with marble columns and such.Discuss! Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: JPutt927 on July 01, 2009, 12:22:09 am In regards to the road, I really like the thought of having a caravan moving along it. As far as having a pillar or monument of some sort...is there some significance to the black obelisk you mention? I'm just curious...
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: Novelty on July 01, 2009, 12:26:12 am A caravan will be "lost" in the picture especially if you put a meeple on the road. A black obelisk will stand out more, although it might still get lost. There is no significance to the black obelisk really, other than the fact that I think a black signpost will stand out. (That and I still have fresh memories of TF:RotF Egyptian and Jordanian scenes in my head.) We can always compromise and have both :)
Black obelisks were also used in the middle east - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Obelisk Edit: Also, a black obelisk will be easier for me to draw :) Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: JPutt927 on July 01, 2009, 12:43:07 am I'm certainly willing to draw the tiles. I personally think a caravan AND the obelisk you mention will work together quite nicely on the tile. And about that obelisk, how big of one are you envisioning? Possibly in relation to a person...
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: Novelty on July 01, 2009, 01:25:08 am And about that obelisk, how big of one are you envisioning? Possibly in relation to a person... I really have no idea. Whatever looks good I suppose :)I'll draw up the rules sometime this week as well. Hopefully it'll be easy. Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: meepleater on July 01, 2009, 03:03:24 am Sounds interesting, but I hate the idea of 'forcing' tile placement...
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: Novelty on July 01, 2009, 03:53:29 am Sounds interesting, but I hate the idea of 'forcing' tile placement... You don't have to play with it if you don't like it I guess. Besides, Hog roast was winning 3-0 until about 24 hours ago :) Who knew this expansion will tie with Hog Roast...Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: meepleater on July 01, 2009, 05:06:53 am Sounds interesting, but I hate the idea of 'forcing' tile placement... You don't have to play with it if you don't like it I guess. Not that I don't like this expansion, I just wonder if there is any alternative, e.g. add the tile to one of YOUR roads OR the roman road (or maybe an opponants road or the roman road). But I do like the sound of this... Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: Novelty on July 01, 2009, 08:56:27 am Not that I don't like this expansion, I just wonder if there is any alternative, e.g. add the tile to one of YOUR roads OR the roman road (or maybe an opponants road or the roman road). But I do like the sound of this... You can play it your way as a variant. The original idea was from Jabberwocky, and I'm loathe to change his basic concept without his agreement (which is a bit disrespectful to him - of course, tile images and names are OK to be changed in my book ;), and he has quite liked what has been done to his expansions so far).Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: meepleater on July 02, 2009, 03:46:40 am Well, I still look forward to this one coming out.... ;D
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: Novelty on July 02, 2009, 05:09:37 am Here's the draft version of the rules (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/carc/expansions/romerules01.pdf), minus the tiles. I'm still wondering if there should be examples in there. Comments and Proofreading welcomed!
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: meepleater on July 02, 2009, 05:16:37 am Looks good:
Point 3, you've referred to it as the 'King's Road' but everywhere else in the document (except footnote 1) as the roman road. If a cathedral and roman temple are in the same city, they cancel each other out when the city is completed. What if they are both in a city that is incomplete? Does the player still score 0 points, or are *all* the effects cancelled out and the player scores partial points? Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: meepleater on July 02, 2009, 05:28:47 am I had another idea for an expansion to this expansion (I could try it after LOTR and monasteries)- roads with special icons that DON'T need to be placed on the Roman Road ;D
I'll see how this turns out first. If you do want examples, I'll be happy to give them a shot, although Joff seems to be best for that sort of thing... Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: Novelty on July 02, 2009, 05:45:45 am If a cathedral and roman temple are in the same city, they cancel each other out when the city is completed. What if they are both in a city that is incomplete? Does the player still score 0 points, or are *all* the effects cancelled out and the player scores partial points? "However, if the completed city also contains a Cathedral in addition to the Roman Temple, then the effects of both the Cathedral and the Roman Temple cancels each other out" "If a city with a Roman Temple has not been completed at the end of the game, it scores no points during the final scoring." Those 2 statements in the rules should answer your question (but I'll place a footnote anyways just to clarify it more). Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: meepleater on July 02, 2009, 05:49:48 am So is that a yes or a no? I find that rather confusing...
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: JPutt927 on July 02, 2009, 09:57:00 am Also, just for the record...I'm out of town this week (and therefore away from my design-capable computer and it's programs). I probably won't be able to get any designs for the tiles until sometime early next week. I hope that's not a problem!
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: Novelty on July 02, 2009, 10:39:05 am Important words bolded.
When does the Cathedral and Roman Temple cancel each other out? "However, if the completed city also contains a Cathedral in addition to the Roman Temple, then the effects of both the Cathedral and the Roman Temple cancels each other out" The sentence is quite clear, they only cancel each other out in a completed city.What about an incomplete city with a Roman Temple and a Cathedral? "If a city with a Roman Temple has not been completed at the end of the game, it scores no points during the final scoring." It doesn't matter if the city has a Cathedral or not, the rules state very clearly that it scores no points if the city is not completed.Of course, if there's a better way of phrasing it I would appreciate it. Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: meepleater on July 02, 2009, 04:38:16 pm I guess I didn't look at that first sentance closely enough... ::)
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: JPutt927 on July 06, 2009, 08:41:33 pm I have yet to do any work on the Roman Road. However, here is the temple I just created today. Let me know your thoughts...
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/Temple.jpg) Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: CKorfmann on July 06, 2009, 08:50:57 pm I think it looks great for a temple. The only check I have is that it doesn't match the other tile art.
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: JPutt927 on July 06, 2009, 08:54:32 pm The only check I have is that it doesn't match the other tile art. Hmmm...care to elaborate at all? Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: Novelty on July 06, 2009, 09:25:53 pm I think the lines on the other stuff is thicker by comparison.
Not related to that, but I think the stairs look funny (it's the shading!). I'd get rid of the stairs because that detail is probably going to get lost on the tile. The other thing that looks funny is the shadow on the ground. The lighting source seems to be coming from the back of the viewer (based on the shadows of the pillars), yet the shadow on the ground seems to indicate that the sun is behind the building. There needs to be a shadow behind the building to match the shadow of the pillars somehow. I hope that helps. Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: JPutt927 on July 06, 2009, 10:12:58 pm Alright...here's an updated one for comparison's sake.
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/Temple2.jpg) Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: Novelty on July 06, 2009, 11:17:34 pm That looks simpler and better. Now there's the Roman Road tile...
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: JPutt927 on July 07, 2009, 12:20:03 am Yessir...I've put a little work in on that one... Hopefully I can get my design of that posted sometime tomorrow.
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: Novelty on July 07, 2009, 12:21:25 am No worries if you can't get it ready by tonight. I know personally how tiring it can be just to make the tiles! :)
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: CKorfmann on July 07, 2009, 01:22:17 am The only check I have is that it doesn't match the other tile art. Hmmm...care to elaborate at all?Sorry for the trite sound of that post. I often don't have much time to make comments and need to keep them short while trying to contribute as often as I can. I hope it wasn't offensive. :) Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: JPutt927 on July 07, 2009, 10:54:51 am Well, I've once again been messing around with the Temple tile since I felt like something may be missing. I agree that it could possibly use some color. Therefore, I thought I would post this design with a colored roof to see what you all think. Personally, I think I like it more...if only because it gives it a little more character, instead of being so blah. However, I'd like to know your thoughts on it...
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/Temple-blue.jpg) Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: Novelty on July 07, 2009, 11:31:58 am It looks nicer. I'm not sure if it's historically accurate. The Roman temples that I've seen usually have white roofs for some odd reason. How about, instead of adding colour, you added a tile pattern to the roof? That's a lot harder to draw, but it could work.
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: wellidesigns on July 07, 2009, 11:34:32 am I agree with Novelty
discard the blue and add some sort of marmored texture to the roof. that looks much more accurate Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: JPutt927 on July 07, 2009, 11:44:25 am Yea, I understand it's historical inaccuracy...but I don't know, I just think it may be a necessary oversight. I guess I'll try messing around with a fancy tile pattern and see what happens.
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: CKorfmann on July 07, 2009, 12:31:53 pm Yea, I understand it's historical inaccuracy...but I don't know, I just think it may be a necessary oversight. I think I'm with you on this one. I'm not sure that historical accuracy is a high priority in the Carcassonne world considering that we have a dragon wandering around and "eating" people. I think the blue is an improvement, but I'd also be interested to see what you can come up with if you're going to keep working on it.Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: JPutt927 on July 07, 2009, 09:41:05 pm Here's yet another version to choose from. This one is probably my favorite (it's between this or the blue-roofed one). The color of the flags not only adds a splash of color, but also ties in with the Road tile, which I've just finished work on. As always, let me know your thoughts.
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/Temple-Flags.jpg) (http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/Road_Final.jpg) Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: Novelty on July 07, 2009, 09:55:22 pm I'll settle for those :) Good job. The tiles on the temple look too regular, but they work so I can live with them. I like the black obelisk!
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: JPutt927 on July 07, 2009, 10:42:23 pm Thanks, I think! But yea, I was satisfied with this. Besides, upon doing a good deal of research, there didn't seem to be too much that was all that IRREGULAR about Greek and Roman temple roof tiles. Many of them simply looked like very orderly, and regular, tiles. Therefore, I settled on this design. And yes, the black obelisk turned out well...and I think the road tile as a whole is awesome, if I'm allowed to compliment my own work! ;)
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: Novelty on July 08, 2009, 11:45:09 am Since there are no further comments on the rules, and I think jputt927 is happy with the tiles, I'm moving this to Public Downloads. Congratulations to everyone who got this collaborative expansion to Public Downloads. Merit point given to jputt927!
Title: Re: Roman Road and Temple (July 2009 Collaborative expansion) Post by: CKorfmann on July 16, 2009, 03:13:54 pm I know this has been finished for a while, but I had a comment on one statement in the rules. I've been so busy at work, I haven't had a chance to read through them fully until now.
The rules state that (roughly) "As the Cathedral is to the Cloister, as the Temple is to the Shrine." This is a small observation, but it seems to me that there was no previous relationship in game play between the Cathedral and the Cloister (though there is the obvious theme relationship). It shouldn't make any difference in the rules, but I just thought I'd point that out. It certainly seems fine to make the correlation here. |