Carcassonne Central

Hello,

i am from germany and wanna tell you about the new game from HIG.
You can combine Carcassonne-Das Schicksalsrad with the original game and the other expansions.
Or you can play Carcassonne-Das Schicksalsrad only, cause it is an own game.
On HIG`s homepage is not anything about the game to read, but they say that they write anything about this game only, when it is ready.
Only Amazon has something to tell http://www.amazon.de/Schmidt-Spiele-48195-Schicksalsrad-amazon/dp/B001TOD5KI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=toys&qid=1245916967&sr=8-1 .

There you can read, that carcassonne - Das Schicksalsrad has an history-roman include (hope this is the right word).

So, hope you can understand what i am writing. My english is under the level of school, cause i wasnt speaking, so much, after school.

Goodbye, Hauser85

Nice tip, thanks  :)

Wow... looks interesting... I wonder what the book is about...

The amazon site says it's exclusive to amazon.de, but that might only refer to the signed book.

Rought translation of the important bit:

For many years, knights, monks, thieves and farmers have been going about their business. But now a mysterious 'wheel of fate' has appeared, which will throw the familiar game into confusion. The plague ensures that the meeples are returned to the player. 'Starvation points' must be won from the farmers. But the player also receive bonus points through the knights, who collect taxes. Only the one who is in the right place at the right time will be able to set his/her fate in the best direction and win the game...

So, some sort of 'wheel'? It sounds like it must be spun or something and adds random factors into the turns... taxes, plagues, starvation... but it is a spin-off as well... this is getting interesting. Someone should add it on BGG.

Here's a rough translation of the rest of the text from the page (I tried to clean it up some, but I could be wrong in some parts):

For all, who already know the 2001 Game of the Year, comprehension is particularly easy, because the Fate Wheel only adds some very easily understood rules which are fast and easy to learn and offer a completely new play experience nevertheless. In addition the materials of the Fate Wheel can be combined with the original play Carcassonne and all available extensions – for larger adventures.

In addition, there is a historical novel to immerse by Helene Luise Köppel to immerse you into the history of the city. It is a packed history, which leaves you no longer in the dark.

(They quote a passage from the book here that doesn't translate well nor requires it.)

Southern France in the year 1202:
The Wheel of the Fate takes its run… the young Viscount of Carcassonne refuses to drive the Heretics out from his land and thereby calls on the help of Rome. Alix, the woman, whom he wants to marry, disappears without trace. her younger sister Inés is to become Lady of Carcassonne. But the intelligent Alix and the simple people of Carcassonne uncover a dark secret and the cruel person who is behind everything. A stout custom painting from the Middle Ages, a history around love and passion, honour and betrayal, religious fanaticism, funds greed and power - a further story by author of the Cathars novel: "the Gold of Carcassonne" and "The Heretics of Montségur".

The only conclusion that I can make from this is we have our 2009 Expansion #8 finally. And I can't say how happy I am. With the announcement of the Catan Card Game: Artisans & Benefactors expansion two days ago (releasing today) and now this releasing in German on 9 July, today is a good birthday indeed. However, there is some important things of note from the box. Most importantly, this expansion does not note anywhere on it the usual Hans im Glück "#. Expansion" in the top left corner, which either suggests they are abandoning that format (which never was very consistent anyway) or that this is not a full expansion. However, assuming the novel is scale to the box and that it is a pocket book or larger (which it should be), the expansion does seem to include a full sized box, albeit one that probably includes an entire book in it. Finally, the picture of the girl, I'm assuming Alix, is consistent with the art of the other Carcassonne expansions but is not consistent with the style, which is medieval. The girl certainly looks more Indian than southern medieval French/Provinçal. The note in the rules concerning Rome I assume is just an oversight, and it is really referring to the Papacy.

Ultimately, I'm going to have to call this a mini-expansion in a big box. It doesn't sound like it includes any new tiles and it may instead be something rather like the Ticket to Ride Dice Expansion: an expansion that just adds a new element with no new pieces. We will certainly have to keep our eyes open in the new few days!

Well, if it is a 'wheel' of some sort, perhaps the box artwork depicts this 'wheel'?

Looks interesting though :)

Edit: I imagine it is simply adding random, luck based additions to the game...wait... did they not just release a luck based expansion in The Catapult!!!???

They do actually depict the Wheel of Fate twice on the visible box. Here's some image extractions:

Wheel of Fate – Full Sized (http://www.whaleyland.com/downloads/wheeloffate.jpg)
Wheel of Fate – Partial but in Color (http://www.whaleyland.com/downloads/wheeloffate2.tiff)
Alix of Carcassonne (http://www.whaleyland.com/downloads/alix.tiff)

It looks like at least two of the Wheel of Fate images are taken directly from the Farmer and the Monk expansion (the sequel to King & Robber) that was never officially released by Hans im Glück. The other images look new, though.

Farmer and Monk? I hadn't heard of that. I presume that is an earlier version of Friar and Farmhand/ Cleric and Serf? The monk looks different that of those mentioned, and the same for the farmer. Where can I see the original Farmer and Monk?

I guess this is the 2009 expansion.  I hope:

1. that this isn't a collected collection
2. that RGG will release this in some form this year

Oh and welcome to Carc Central Hauser85!  Merit point given to you for this piece of news :)

Ditto. Also:

3. it turns out to be better than the previous (ghastly) expansion...

Amen to that meepleater, and

4. it's an expansion, not a spin-off.

The roman thing might indicate it's based in rome instead of southern france which might make it a spin-off.  Blegh!

Nevermind, you're right. I was using my memory which was apparently faulty. They still seem to be copying the rough intent of the Cleric and Serf images, but they are indeed different.

I also hope this releases sometime (soon) this year, because my Carcassonne life is getting rather boring without the addition of anything worthwhile last year. I mean really. I have all three versions of the Cult, but they all are just really cloisters that have a chance of giving me no points. I have Catapult, but the lameness of that expansion hardly needs recounting. And I have the Siege tiles, but have played with my DIY Cathars tiles enough times to hardly consider those tiles worthwhile. The only thing that he been getting me along these past few months have been the fan expansions here, but I really want something more official (and better than Catapult!).

I don't think it's a spinoff. In fact, I don't even think it has a stand-alone feature like first advertised. It seems to be an expansion only from the Amazon.de text, but the wording suggests it is like the Catapult...not specifically designed with the other expansions in mind.

It certainly does sound like an expansion... I wonder how (or if?) if works on its own...

EDIT: the box cover clearly shows the carcassone-ian building in the picture's background, which none of the other spin-offs have done...

I must just state at this juncture how much we are all Carcassonne geeks. Yes, every one of us. Right, that being said, any more observations anyone?!

It's (sort of) on BGG:  http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/418370 (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/418370)

So, when are you going to use the knight on horseback as a tile, meepleater? ;D

  The girl looks like a gypsy, but has a Star of David, so I'm confused.  Also, could "Roman" = Roma = Gypsies instead of referring to Rome?

12th centruy the Jews were hated in most of europe as they were the money lenders. Every large town had a jewery so maybe this expansion brings in something along those lines as in England during the medieval period the Pope did excommunicate  due to the certain religious tollerances.

??? Are you referring to the sentry?

This expansion might take a while to be released if the book has to be translated too...

If the Catan book is any comparison, it still hasn't been translated. Let's all hope that the expansion will be released separately in English if they don't translate the book. Either way, I will probably buy this expansion from Germany the second it is available (let's hope July 9th), since I doubt an English version is underway immediately. Especially since HiG still hasn't even announced it yet.

I agree. I hope at least the expansion part will become available soon. I noticed the Kids of Carcassonne in my local game shop when I bought Traders and barbarians, that seems like a pretty quick translation to me.

Btw, is the Catan Book ever going to be translated by Mayfair?

I hope so because that book is sounding increasingly interesting. Especially since Catan.com is taking more of its theme these days from the plot of the book, including a bunch of the characters.

Oh, I thought you were referring to Das Buch... but the other book would be interesting. I think we're getting a bit off topic...

I've submitted Das Schicksalsrad as a game to BGG... I'm still waiting to see what happens

Good luck with that. Only once did they add something that I submitted.

I've ntoiced that all the games submitted AFTER this have been accepted, but the ones before this and this haven't yet. More have been submitted after and been accepted too- why is this and the ones above not counting?

Didn't it say it could be played as a spinoff though?  To me that says there has to be a lot of pieces...

I think there is a spin-wheel...like a pin-wheel. And that is possibly the only new piece to add to the game, although it would be nice if they added some new tiles.

I'd imagine there may be some new tiles in the form of a gypsy (like the one pictured on the box). They might act similar to the catapult tiles...if you pull a gypsy tile, maybe the wheel gets spun? Those are my thoughts at least...and I for one, am looking forward to it.

OK, just found this on HiG's site (scroll down to the reply dated 22/6) with regards to this expansion:


Which translates roughly as "Was surprised that this is listed as an expansion as it is an independent game"

So I guess this is a spin-off and not an expansion.

At long last, the submission was accepted: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/45748

Maybe our initial confusion wasn't over the game being an expansion for the base game, but being a base game itself, as well as an expansion. Maybe it works as both. Who knows? But the description and image on Amazon.de make it seem still like an expansion, and I still want to go under that assumption.

I refer you to this:


HiG themselves have confirmed that it's an independent game.  I think the amazon.de listing is in error.

Well, amazon.de just confirmed that it has been posted... so we'll find out more in a couple of days.

Hope it is an expansion. If it isn't, well, that'll learn me.

That's all well and good that they've published what you sent them, but what you've sent them is of no help to anyone and mainly based on speculation.

Sorry, but i fail to see the point of publishing something of which you don't know anything about.

I added it to the Carcassonne wiki page on BGG.

Arrived in the post... haven't had time to unbox... but from the blurb it IS both a new game and an expansion. If anything, it looks like an updated version of the basic game.

More to follow.

Matt, please do remember to have a camera ready.  It'd be great to have pictures!!!!  ;D

So: it really is a remake of the original. I haven't compared the tile distribution in detail, but the set contains 72 tiles, a score board, and five sets of eight figures.

It also contains a large 'wheel of fate' (4x4 tiles), which should serve as a starting tile, and a giant pink pig for use on the wheel.

18 of the new tiles have numbers on them - something to do with moving the wheel, I think. The instruction manual claims to be identical to the original, with new rules for the wheel highlighted in red. I'll have a proper read through confirm that later.

The set I ordered seems to have been a limited edition - not only does it come with a signed copy of the accompanying book (557 pages), but the inside of the box has a insert stuck to it claiming to number 433 of 500, and is signed by Klaus-Jürgen Wrede (!).

Here's some scans of the tiles:

(http://mjharper.macbay.de/schicksalsrad1.jpg)
(http://mjharper.macbay.de/schicksalsrad2.jpg)
(http://mjharper.macbay.de/schicksalsrad3.jpg)
(http://mjharper.macbay.de/schicksalsrad4.jpg)
(http://mjharper.macbay.de/schicksalsrad5.jpg)
(http://mjharper.macbay.de/schicksalsrad6.jpg)
(http://mjharper.macbay.de/schicksalsrad7.jpg)

I'm so excited I can hardly contain myself! But then HiG did the one cardinal sin that they have avoided all this time: they have printed text on an actual game component! Stupid Wheel of Fate! Now if I buy you, you will be in German and I won't understand you. Will they make this expansion/spin-off/remake in English? Oh, it is so very doubtful. Must buy...must buy...spinning wheels of avarice...

Questions:
1. Does the wheel have some sort of spinner?
2. Can you snap-shot or scan the pig for us?

Wheel Translations:
Hungersnot – Famine (Bauern x Städte – Farmer x of cities)
Unwetter – Tempest (Gefolgsleute im Vorrat – something to do with "the supply")
Inquisition – Inquisition (Mönch – Monk)
Pest – Plague (1 [Meeple] zurück in den Vorrat – 1 [Meeple] back into the supply)
Fortuna – Fortune(?) (Move the pig?)
Steuern – Controls ([Shield] + Ritter – [Shield] + Knight)

Now, what do all these mean? That's for mj to discover

The tile distribution is diferent from the basic game.

I think is a combination whith tiles coming from the base and the 1st expansion.

I'll do a proper translation of the rules soon (I have to go out tonight), but basically it's as follows:

The new wheel is the starting tile, and the pig of fate (TM) is placed in on Fortune segment, nose point to the right (seriously).

Whenever a player chooses not to deploy a follower to a segment, the follower can be placed on one of the crown areas (need a better trans) on the rim on the wheel.

Whenever a tile with a wheel number is drawn, the game pauses (before the tile is placed). The pig of fate then moves clockwise around the wheel segments - the same number as on the tile drawn. Any segments passed over are ignored, but the segment the pig lands on triggers an action, as follows:

Fortune (Fortuna) - the player whose turn it is receives 3 points.

Tax (Steuern) - points for knights. For every knight, you receive 1 point for every pennant in an occupied city, plus 1 point for every one of your knights in that city. So: blue has 2 knights in a 2 pennant city, and scores 8 points (2x(2+2)).

Famine (Hungersnot) - points for farmers. Every framer 1 point for every completed city on/in a farm.

Storm (Unwetter) - every follower in the supply - not in play - gives a player 1 point.

Inquisition - Every player received 2 points for every monk they have in play.

Plague - Starting with the player whose turn it is, every player must return one follower to their supply.

It's important to note that all of these, except Fortune, affect all players.

After that, the crown areas of that wheel segment are scored. If there is only one crown area, any follower stood on it receives 3 points. If there are two areas, but only one follower is stood there (the second are is unoccupied) the player scores 6 points. If there are two followers stood there - one on each segment - then each scores it's owner 3 points. Then these followers are returned to the supply.

Finally, the player whose turn it is may now place the tile drawn as usual.

_________
So there you go. It is a complete expansion, although from that perspective there are a number of redundant tiles and / or figures, but it also works as an alternative 'vanilla' Carc. Definitely an improvement from The Catapult, but my guess is that it won't add that much to the play (unlike, say, Abbey and Mayor).

I wonder if the Pig of Fate (TM) features heavily in the novel?

Just musing aloud...

Fate's a pig, and then you pork it...

That's true, and I hope they do release a English version. But to be honest, with the added scoring complexity I think a little help is needed...

1. No, no spinner. Thankfully (would play havoc with other tiles, I'd imagine)
2. Um, maybe ;). But it really is just a big pink pig. Think of the relationship between the normal and big follower, and colour it pink, and you've got it.

Last question: Where did you buy it (I hope from inside the US)? I just left the UK and am kicking myself that I didn't stay one more week to get this straight from Germany. Thanks!

I ordered it direct from amazon.de (the original link at the start of the thread). They posted it yesterday and it arrived today... But then I do live in Germany ;)

At the moment it doesn't seem to be on the other amazon sites. I guess it will take a little while to filter through...

nice work MJ.....thanks for the review/photos, etc.

My wife is going to England to visit family in Aug. and she's meeting her friend there that lives in Germany.....I'm SOOOOOO tempted to have her bring me one back!
But, maybe worth waiting for an English version?  Clearly all the contents of the book will be lost on me as I don't speak German  :(    Any info on the book?

From first glance, the book seems to be a fairly high quality publication. The author has written several historical novels before, one of which concerned the Cathars and Carcassonne, and is probably what caught the attention of HiG. I haven't actually looked at the text itself, so I can't vouch for the content, but it certainly looks like a decent tie-in. But I doubt that the new expansion will only be available with the book, and my reasoning behind that is the packaging.

As you'd expect from an expansion which doubles as a replacement of the basic game, the box is the same size as the original Carcassonne. The book arrived in a cardboard surround which exactly matched that - so the package was twice the width of the original box. The two things were bound together in a single plastic cover. But the game itself was separately wrapped - the book was most definitely an addition to a pre-packed game. (Sorry if I'm not as clear as I could be, had a few of beers).

Point is that the game looked to me as if it was meant to be sold separately without the book, which would make sense if you bear in mind the distinctly 'limited' feel of the package I received. My guess is that there will be a cheaper game-only edition available before long, and anyone who wishes to import the game from Germany to (say) the US but has no interest in the book should probably wait a little, as the book doubles the size of the package.

I think you might be right. I'll have a closer look tomorrow.

Considering that you have mentioned numerous times that this is a replacement for the base game, as well as an expansion, I assume it comes with a full set of followers and a score board (?). Does it come with five or six sets and does it include the gray 50/100 point counters?

From reviewing your scans—which are beautiful, by the way, and I feel need to be uploaded to BGG post haste—I fear that a US/English adaptation of the game may only come with the 19 "Fate" tiles and the wheel (with pig), leaving out the other 53 tiles that are exact duplicates of earlier tiles. I can't see Jay, for some reason, releasing a whole new counter-edition of the base game, it just doesn't seem his style. He is about releasing new things, not copies of old things (re: not releasing Count, King & Consort but creating Cult, Siege & Creativity instead). I will email him. I've messaged him about six times before, so he may be expecting me (lol, probably not). I'll post his reply as soon as I can coax it out of him.

Someone posted some pictures on BGG and I thought I'd repost them here for our enjoyment.

The box art on the back:
(http://images.boardgamegeek.com/images/pic512702.jpg)

The book box that Matthew spoke of:
(http://images.boardgamegeek.com/images/pic512704_md.jpg)

The Wheel and some tiles integrated in full play (with Pig included!):
(http://images.boardgamegeek.com/images/pic512703_md.jpg)

And again, despite the game being in a sense an expansion, it seems that HiG is not anticipating this to be anything less than a full base-game replacement component, since they have not placed an expansion number on the cover or back of the box, as they have done with all the other large expansions. I guess we have a new base-game to include in our "own" list on CarcCentral. (Ahem, will some admin/moderator please add the expansion to the list? Please?)

That made me laugh.

New watermark.  Compatible with the base game.  I'll call this an expansion.  Eep!  Here's our 2009 expansion.  I hope RGG makes an English version (without the book).

Whaley, when I saw the wheel and matt's comment that it's the starting tile, it made me think of you and your attempts at the additional starting tiles.  Perhaps you can make a variant of the wheel with all the other versions. ;D

That's extra funny since I just read Scott's remarks that we have begun making too many cross-compatible expansions. lol. Well, anyway, I guess if HiG hasn't done it yet, maybe they have a point. I think I will stick with making a moated City of Carcassonne (with two river outlets, to satisfy my lust for expanding things to other expansions. :-D )

Anywho, so I contacted Jay and am awaiting a reply. I also updated the BGG entry for the game. So it looks nice. I can't wait, Matthew, for you to give your opinions and review of the rules.

I like the idea of the wheel of fate; much better than Catapult and accomplishes some of the same goals.

This feels like a replacement for the base game more than an expansion, though I also haven't played a double base game like others have. If you did combine the two, would everybody get double the number of regular meeples?

I've often wondered that myself.  I use a scoring program on my laptop, so sometimes when we play mega-carc, I use the 8th meeple since there are so many tiles.  Especially if there are only two or three people playing.

I also noticed at least 1 from Traders and Builders and 2 from King and Scout... (in addition to about 6 from Inns and Cathedrals)

Which are the 2 from K&S?

The CFFR (also in A&M, but originally in K&S), and CRRR with one road leaving the city and going left, another road going from the bottom to the right is also from K&S.

The CRFF is from T&B.

All these tiles are in the bottom of matt's tile images...

It comes with five sets of eight followers in blue, yellow, green, red and black. The 50/100 point tokens are absent. With the somewhat different tile distribution from the original, my feeling is that this could be used as an alternative to the basic game, but it could also be used in its entirety as an expansion.

Just re-packaging the original game with a couple of numbers on some tiles would have left a many players disappointed. But they've managed to make a set which should appeal to (completely) new players and old hacks like us, with a minimum of redundancy.

I think that's quite possible. But on the other hand, the wheel of fate itself covers 16 tiles, and it's inclusion is probably the motivation behind the whole replacement basic game thing. That one piece is as wide as the box, and it would look terrible if cut into separate tiles the way The Count of Carcassonne is. There's arguments for and against creating a 'pure' expansion version.

I don't think so. HiG has always been against that. Nice to have some spares, but the meeples are probably the biggest redundancy of the set.

You ain't seen nothin' yet. This box adds 72 tiles, plus the outer 12 of the wheel can be scored. That's effectively 84 new tiles in one expansion - or about a 30% increase over the previous maxed-out game of mega-Carc. A new maxed-out game should take a day to play, and you won't need a table, you'll need a room.

Matt, could you show us a photo of the internal of the box as well?  I'm curious as to how it looks.

Also, if you could show us a comparison of the pink pig with the other pigs (and the agricola boar), I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks.

Okay, I have a little time now and so am doing a complete comparison of Carcassonne versus The Wheel of Fate tile summaries:

Carcassonne  =  Wheel of Fate
CCCC 1 = 1
CCCF  3 =  2 (+ 1 on Wheel)
CCCF w/Pennant  1 = 1
CCCR  1 = 1
CCCR w/Pennant  2 = 2 
CCFF  3 = 2
CCFF w/Pennant  2 = 2
CCFF w/2 cities  2 = 2
CCRR 3 = 2
CCRR w/Pennant  2 = 2
CFCF  1 = 2
CFCF w/Pennant  2 = 2
CFCF w/2 cities 3 = 2
CFFF 5 = 4 (+2 on Wheel)
CFRR 3 = 2
CRFR 4 = 4 (includes start tile)
CRRF 3 = 2
CRRR 3 = 2
FFFF w/Cloister 4 = 4
FFFR w/Cloister 2 = 2
FFRR 9 = 8
FRFR 8 = 7 (+3 on Wheel)
FRRR 4 = 4
RRRR 1 = 1
TOTAL 72 = 63 (+6 from Wheel)

From Inns & Cathedrals:
CCCF w/3 cities = 1
CCFR = 1 (without Inn)
CCRF = 1
CFRF = 1
FRFR w/Cloister = 1
RRRR w/2 roads = 1
TOTAL = 6

From Traders & Builders:
CRFF = 1
TOTAL = 1

From King & Scout:
CFFR = 1
CRRR = 1
TOTAL = 2

From Games Quarterly #11:
FFFF = (+6 from Wheel)

GRAND TOTAL = 72 (+12 from Wheel)

So it looks like they borrowed 9 tiles from three of the first four expansions (no River tiles). In so doing, they didn't change the number of Pennants at all, but they did add one Cloister from I&C. They also removed the Inn from one of the tiles. To achieve this replacement, they mostly reduced the number of high-volume tiles from the base game and did that by replacing them with similar tiles (ie FRFR w/Cloister for FRFR from base game) or providing more complicated road tiles to reduce field size. A smart move all around, since the base game always suffered from oversize fields. It seems HiG did their homework and wisely left the newer expansion (post-T&B) tiles untouched.

The Wheel tile itself provides an element of probable unknown circumstances. Without even playing, I have formulated some questions that Matthew needs to send to HiG since I doubt they are answered in the included rules:
1. Three roads venture behind the wheel, so are they ended? or do they connect?
2. Since the tiles are clearly outlined on the Wheel tile, can Magic Portals transport followers to a Wheel tile?
3. Can the Dragon cross the visible wheel tiles?
4. Does the Wheel count for any points as a landscape feature?
5. Are the three fields on the Wheel tile connected or separate?

Ah, you've got to love the need for an annotated rules document.

Your wish is my command - sorry for poor quality, taken on phone camera.

(http://mjharper.macbay.de/pigs.jpg)
(http://mjharper.macbay.de/inside.jpg)

Thank you Matt.  That pig looks to be porking the pink pig...

Matt, does the book contain any coloured illustration besides that shown on the cover?  I know the expansion is barely a day old, but custom expansion makers like me probably already have their devious designs ready for the bits and bobs in the expansion :hehe:

Nice work there! I agree, they've made a nice job of something which could have been really poor.

Good questions too. The rules (full translation coming soon) do say that the surrounding segments of the wheel are scored in the usual way. I take that to mean that the roads end when they reach the wheel, and there are three separate farms.

Indeed ;) Worth noticing (if it comes out at all in the photo) that the new pig is not just an oversized version of the old pig. It has a bit more throat, and it's rump is a little more, er, saggy.

No colour pix. But there are a couple of maps - the region around Carcassonne, and a slightly more detailed map of the city itself, along with some history and info about famous people. I might see if I can scan some of this without ruining the book.

Okay, Jay just got back to me, much quicker than I expected. His replies were very brief and undetailed, and rather uninformed, but whatever, he did answer the major question:

Will RGG be releasing this expansion: Yes!
When is the timeframe for release: In 2-3 months time.
Will it be the same as the HiG version: Identical (although, he didn't mention the book).

The one weird thing is that Jay didn't seem to know that it replaces the base game. He corrected me twice, stating it is just an expansion, so either he hasn't seen it, or HiG has been telling him misinformation. Either way, it seems that the release will be sometime in the Autumn. Yay!

Thanks for the update Whaley.  I do hope we'll get an English version this year (without the book!) and I'd much prefer being able to buy it in my FLGS than online (where shipping charges will probably inflate the price to double of what I'll be paying at my FLGS).  Did Jay say he'll be renaming it, or adding anything new, or...?

That's not quite fair, either to Jay or to HiG ;) It is an expansion, but it is also a stand alone-game: that is, it can be used either as a replacement for the basic game, or an addition to it. That's a tricky concept to describe... I think the onus is more on HiG to explain it correctly though, which they haven't quite managed to do. In that thread discussed above they stated surprise that it was listed as an expansion - but that's what it is. Only it's also more at the same time.

I'm sure that Jay is planning to release the game, but we won't know what form it will take until he has had time to figure out exactly what to do with it.

No, he was actually very brief and unhelpful. He answered my questions, but said very little more, as if he was busy and had more important things to do than indulge a loyal Carcassonne fan. But that's not the first time Jay has brushed me off. Let me give you the exact email reply he gave me:


So, Jay himself seems to not entirely know what's going on. I guess since HiG doesn't even have a page about it on their website, the release may have taken him by surprise. But Carcassonne always releases an expansion around this time of year, so he should have been expecting it. The fact that he denies it is a replacement for the base game twice makes me think he hasn't actually looked into the issue thoroughly. Just my thoughts. I am not sure if sending him a second email at this time would be very effective, but anyone else can try. We all are looking for answers that satisfy us. Maybe if someone mentioned that it includes 72 tiles, it would wake him up?

I think an email at this point of time will probably be unhelpful.  I'm not sure he has all the details from HiG yet.  When he does get that, he'll have to decide what works for him and how he is to market it (as is, but in English? something different as in C,S&C? something else?).  I think we should give him time rather than bombard him with more details.

Who we should bombard is mjharper to update the CAR with the new expansion!!! :)

Agreed.

What do you think I'm working on right now? :)

From everything MJ has shown and told us (good stuff too), I would be happy for Rio G to produce it as an expansion set with just the wheel and pig, or complete. It's not too difficult to grasp in concept as a stand alone game that's also an expansion - The new 'Dominion - Intrigue' works in the same way, however there seems to be a bit more imagination shown in that, far more new stuff and just a few duplicated parts.

Why doesn't anyone want the book? I'd love it to be translated into English - Anyone know if the authors other books have English versions?

Please don't tell me you're still working on your thesis!  I thought that was over and done with ages ago ;)

Looking through the tile list, not all the "wheel" tiles are on a single sheet - they are spread out over the 6 sheets.  So it might be a bit difficult for Jay to make a "wheel" only expansion (it'd be much easier to use the same sheets as HiG and to print all the tiles).  We shall have to wait and see what RGG does.

Not that I can see from amazon.com or co.uk.

I meant I was working on the CAR ::)

LOL, I get that, hence the winkie!

I won't want the book because it'll just add to the cost of the expansion.  I'm not sure I'd like a medieval novel (Whaley might, but it's not my cup of tea).  I'd rather be able to buy the book separately in my local Borders than with my boardgames.

I like how no matter where I am in the world and who I am talking to, I always become "Whaley". Weird. I mean, it is my last name, but still, I don't call most of my friends by their last name...or do I? Anywho, indeed it is my cup of tea and I wish that they would translate the novel into English, but considering the precedent—The Settlers of Catan Novel—I don't see it as likely. I too would prefer to buy a cheaper version in a bookstore, although Borders is rarely the cheapest bookstore in my neck of the woods. I generally buy from Amazon.com Marketplace, where the real deals are made. In fact, I think I bought Abbey & Mayor new from a Marketplace vendor. That all being said, when WILL they translate that stupid Catan novel?! I have been waiting like 13 years for it, or at least four, since I began playing Catan.

Speaking of which, I assume you are adding the new components of this expansion into the CAR, please release the translation and first-draft notes as soon as you've got a draft for us to read. The last CAR draft states its dated from January. I think it's time to see what seven months have added to it. Also, where should we start the FAQ list for the new expansion? Here or on the forum for the CAR? I'm not sure if that has gotten too crowded for more FAQs or not.

I'll definitely post something here as soon as I have it. There will be quite a lot of changes because of this expansion, as there are a lot of new tiles to account for in the Tile Reference, and several things to add to the glossary. And I'll probably have to rework the scoring overview completely as well. Quite a lot to do.

Well, at the moment I'm going through the pages of corrections hester sent to me ages ago, because I should do that before adding too much new content which will screw up the page order. That's mostly stuff from the glossary, which was the newest addition in any case. After that I'll add the new material for the Wheel of Fate - at which point I'll post a new beta - and then we'll have to get the FAQ sorted out. There was already a list to send the HiG and we'll have to add the new FAQ to that.

Yeah, FAQs for the new expansion should go in a dedicated thread. Makes it easier to keep track of.

To be honest, if there had been any significant progress in the last few months, I would have posted a new beta. I've just had other things on my mind of late. But the semester ended today and I'm using the new expansion - a worthy one, after the disappointment of the Catapult - to spur me to action ;D

EDIT: It tells you something about how out of sorts I've been that I realised today there was already a beta 5 - based on changes I'd made on 20 January (!) Oh well. I guess I didn't expect to get so badly side-tracked. Anyway, the new beta will be #6...

I'm also interested in an English translation of the book. Don't particularly care if it's bundled with the game or sold separately.

I wonder what the legalities are of translating books to English. Can the translations be freely distributed?

I doubt he doesn't know what's going on.  I was in contact with him recently about purchasing spare parts and he mentioned something about going to meet with HiG soon.  Since that was probably about two months ago, I think it's safe to assume that this expansion was what they would be meeting about.  I think think his remarks were in response to my suggestion that he offer ideas from our fan-made list if they get stuck.  That's probably another whole can of worms, but how cool would it be if they wanted to use one of ours?  ;D 

I suppose his confusion wouldn't be totally out of the question though since he did send me Carc:City towers rather than Tower expansion pieces I aske for to make the Black Tower, but hey, nobody's perfect!  ;)  I guess I'll have to figure out a use for them.

Not without permission, I think.

I guess you're wondering whether a fan-based translation would be possible, right?

In an attempt to have some division of labour concerning the new expansion I'd like to suggest the following:

• General discussion (RGG, the book and so on) should take place in this one, the original thread
• Suggestions for FAQ should be posted here (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=1003.0)
• Discussion of the translation of the rules themselves should take place in this thread (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=1005.0)

__________
Oh, and I took look at the back of the wheel tile, and was pleasantly surprised:

(http://mjharper.macbay.de/back-small.jpg)

The full size scan is here (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/mjharper.macbay.de/back.jpg), and I'll upload it to BGG as well.

Anyway, that could solve certain issues with German wording, although you'd have to put it to one side and not use it as the starting tile (a rather obvious 'home rule' I've already added to the CAR). But it might also be quite nice to make a transparent version of the wheel and see if we can come up with some desktops or something...

Thanks, and sorry for the double-post.

Yes.

Well, when I send in the next bunch of FAQ I'll ask. But that would be a monumental task, given the length of the book...

Perhaps it might be better to contact the author direct and ask her if she has plans to get the book translated and published in English.  I found her website while searching for the expansion.  I suppose if enough people email her to ask her for an English translation, she might oblige?

Edit: Her website is at http://www.koeppel-sw.de/

Someone posted the inside of the box finally on BGG (I requested it). He gives a preview of the rules document, which appears to have a separate section for the Wheel of Fate rules. Also, it appears that there is a strange crown logo on the start space on the scoreboard. Mr. Harper, you never mentioned that little addition. Is there any note of it in the rules? Or does it appear to be just a marker designating the starting space?

(http://images.boardgamegeek.com/images/pic514762_lg.jpg)

Because most of the rules for The Wheel of Fate are needed at that point - between 1a and 1b. The other 'new' rules, such as using the Wheel Tile as starting tile are also listed at the points they would arise, and are highlighted in the same colour. The idea is just to make it easier for experienced players to find the new rules.

Yeah, sorry. I kept telling myself I should mention that, and then kept forgetting. As far as I can see, the crown maker in the corner is the only difference between this and the original score-board, and it is not mentioned in the rules at all. It's a purely cosmetic change, and that's why it kept slipping my mind.

For those of you who can read German or want a look at the rules, Hans im Glück finally has a page up for Wheel of Fate, and they include a copy of the rules in .pdf format. Check it out here (http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/224.0.html). HiG is calling it a spin-off and places it in the spin-off section of their site. I'm not sure what that really means officially, but it seems they are treating and marketing it as a stand-alone game rather than an expansion.

So, am I correct in saying that the only difference from this set and the standard game set is as follows:

A 4 x 4 tile (Wheel of fate)
A wooden pig to move on above
Some additional rules.

If that's the case then I really hope this gets issued just with those parts as well as the complete thing.

There are also about 20 tiles with the wheel icon on them.

There are also a few tile configurations that are different from the original.  Some that are included in other sets. 

It's not the only difference- I'm pretty sure my base game has the spaces on the scoreboard grey, instead of brown...

Perhaps the Australian version is grey.  I have both version thanks to a US Big Box 2.  Here's a picture of them side by side.

(http://www.dukenostalgia.com/carc/images/oldvsnew.jpg)

I was just wondering if some sets came with brown tiles to match the scoreboard.

I hope that the scoreboard from Das Schicksalsrad doesn't change to grey as well, I prefer the brown one...

The open box image on BGG is brown. That's a good sign for you. Personally, I'd like a gray one myself since I already have a brown one...I think. I got mine in the Big Box 1 and I seem to remember noting how it was brown but the 50/100 tiles were gray.

Brown or grey... I had no idea that there was a grey version. My rather old and battered vanilla has a brown scoreboard.

Whaley, I think meepleater means he hopes the English version of the Wheel of Fate/Fortune will not have a grey scoreboard but a brown one instead.  It doesn't really matter for me, I have both versions of the scoreboard (but not the version with the wheel).

I think I'm going to design score board covers so that I can have a 150-point scoreboard with all 3 scoreboards!

Wow, been a while since anyone's posted on this forum. I keep asking Jay when I send him emails about the Carcassonne Central Expansion, but he never acknowledges that specific question. Anyway, I thought I'd post a nice review somebody put up on BGG: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/439802 (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/439802). It sums up the rules pretty well and gives a relatively neutral opinion of the expansion/game. For those of you who don't want to read the whole thing, his main point is that it doesn't add much but also doesn't take away anything, and overall the gambling aspect adds an extra fun element with the bonus points. Pretty much my opinion from what I've read. Anyway, check out the review and give the person some merits!

It looks as if the english version is finally arriving: now available for pre-order at http://www.funagain.com/control/product?product_id=020727

It appears as though you can also pre-order the new stand-alone River expansion from the same page.

The game page (http://riograndegames.com/games.html?id=338) at RGG is up, and it includes the English version of the rules (http://riograndegames.com/uploads/Game/Game_338_gameRules.pdf).  I haven't gone through the rules yet and I'm just wondering if there are any difference in the English version of the rules.

Thank God. I was starting to worry that it would never come out in English.

Of course, he emphasizes on the listing that it is "It is a stand-alone game, not an expansion," which is a very intelligent move since it is, in fact, an expansion as well as a stand-alone. It also mentions nowhere that it can act as a replacement base game. The entry basically says it falls in the same category as Discovery or Hunters & Gatherers. Smart, Rio Grande, very smart.

Also, has anyone noticed that the images in the rules are very VERY poor quality? I was worried that the "not expansion" would not even have the Wheel symbols in the corners. That, at least, seems corrected by the poor addition of them on the last page.

w00t for the red backgrounds on the differences between the original Carc.

I just got an email from FunAgainGames stating that Carcassonne: Wheel of Fortune is now in stock and ready to ship! Get your English-language copy today!

hehe. I ordered Wheel of Fortune yesterday. It should arrive sometime next week with my copy of Ticket to Ride 1912 Europa. I'll try and post a sessions report here when I play it. Perhaps I will do the same with Tunnel when I get that. I'll post them on BGG too so I can finally get the last 4 GG to earn an übergeekbadge (I've been working hard for that one!).

I got mine last week.  I've yet to play it though. Hopefully by tomorrow night though.

Finally got Wheel of Fortune today, thereby completing my Carcassonne collection again. Why is it everytime I complete my collection, a new expansion is released? Anyway, still haven't had a play through; I decided to try out Ticket to Ride Europa 1912 first. Fun expansion! I'll post a sessions report for WoF after I play it.