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Title: Pigs and Barns Post by: Sade on June 23, 2009, 07:00:04 pm I need a clarification to this somewhat unclear rule.
Suppose that there is Farm A with one red farmer meeple. Then red player connects Farm A to Farm B, which has (doesn't really matter whos) barn. The question is: Can red player put a pig on the tile he just placed, and therefore double the points he'd get from the surrounding cities? Quoted from the CAR: "No farmer may be deployed to a farm with a barn." However, pig is not a farmer, and I didn't find any side notes regarding this issue. Since scoring always happens after figure placement (right?), I don't see any reason why this would be denied. Title: Re: Pigs and Barns Post by: meepleater on June 23, 2009, 07:18:03 pm Good question... this has never occurred to me. I guess 'yes' would be nice, but my intuition is telling me 'no'...
oh, and btw. the pig doesn't double the points- he only adds 1 extra point... Title: Re: Pigs and Barns Post by: Novelty on June 23, 2009, 08:02:56 pm From the CAR:
"No farmer may be deployed to a farm with a barn." - pg 54 (as you have quoted) and "The pig can only be deployed to the tile which has just been placed, and then only to a farm which already contains one of the player’s farmers." - pg 24 The pig is not a farmer (or a follower) so it may be placed when a farm is connected to a farm with a barn, provided that before the farmers are scored, there is one farmer (not barn) of the pig's colour in the farm (which is a requirement to place the pig on the farm). Otherwise, you can't play a pig as the pig can only be played to a farm with a farmer (not barn) of the same colour. The pig doesn't normally double the points scored, it adds +1 for each city. However, this +1 is enough to double the scoring of farmers when a barn is placed, or when it's connected to a barn since farmers normally score 1 point per city when it's scored and removed by the barn. I hope that helps. Title: Re: Pigs and Barns Post by: Sade on June 23, 2009, 09:36:37 pm Thanks. I have used this strategy quite a lot, and it's nice to hear that it wasn't my own house rule. For some reason I just have to play Carcassonne as 'officially correctly' as I could.
Title: Re: Pigs and Barns Post by: meepleater on June 23, 2009, 10:16:22 pm For some reason I just have to play Carcassonne as 'officially correctly' as I could. I agree- even rules I don't like... the only exception is the pig herd from GQ11- we treat it the same as the one from River2 Title: Re: Pigs and Barns Post by: Joff on June 24, 2009, 03:09:46 am A couple of examples, just to illustrate this point:
(http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/Barn1.gif) A Yellow farmer is on a field that does not contain the Red barn. (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/Barn2.gif) The Yellow player connects to the farm containing Red's barn (using the 'frfr' cloister tile). He may now place his pig, as at this point he satisfies the rules for pig placement (he has a farmer in the field that he places his pig into). Scoring now takes place. The yellow farmer scores 2 points per completed city (1 for the farmer and 1 for the pig), in this case scoring 4 points. The Red barn does not score until game end. (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/Barn3.gif) Yellow's farmer and pig are now removed from the field. And now the opposite: (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/Barn4.gif) A Yellow farmer with his pig is controlling a field containing 2 completed cities. (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/Barn8.gif) The Red player places a tile which gives him an opportunity to place his barn (using the 'rrff'). He may now place his barn into the field containing the Yellow farmer and pig as, at this point, he satisfies the rules for barn placement (he has a four tile section of all fields meeting at the corners). Scoring now takes place. The yellow farmer scores 4 points per completed city (3 for the farmer and 1 for the pig), in this case scoring 8 points. The Red barn does not score until game end. (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/Barn7.gif) Yellow's farmer and pig are now removed from the field. In this latter case Yellow scores more than in the former example as Yellow is in control of the field at Red's barn placement, whereas, in the first example, Red was in control of the field that Yellow connected to. I hope this helps a little. Edit: Corrected the scoring to reflect the current HiG/RGG rules, instead of the redundant 1st edition RGG ruleset. Thanks to Vulch Edit: Corrected the 'cloister tile' mistake. Thanks to CKorfmann Title: Re: Pigs and Barns Post by: Vulch on June 24, 2009, 04:45:07 am Joff
I understand your first example which is covered by this rule: and scores 1+1 for each city. Quote Scoring when a farm is connected No farmer may be deployed to a farm with a barn.184 If the placement of a tile results in a farm with farmers being connected to a farm with a barn, the farmers are scored immediately. However, the player with the majority of farmers scores only 1 point for every completed city (with a pig: 2 points instead of 1.) These farmers are then also returned to their owners after scoring.185 But in the second example why does the farmer score 4+1? Shouldnt it be 3+1 as in this rule: Where do you get the extra point from? Quote Scoring when placing a barn Any farmers already on the farm are scored immediately, in the same way as at the end of the game. 179 That is, the player or players with the majority of farmers score the usual 3 points ([sic]+1 for the pig) for every completed city 180 It makes no difference whether the owner of the barn is involved in scoring or not. Title: Re: Pigs and Barns Post by: Joff on June 24, 2009, 06:09:06 am Yes, sorry... I'm harking back to RGG rules and not the correct HiG rules. Mistake now corrected! :-[
Title: Re: Pigs and Barns Post by: CKorfmann on June 24, 2009, 07:50:25 am Nice job on the examples. The RRFF tile isn't a cloister tile, but that's minor.
Title: Re: Pigs and Barns Post by: Novelty on June 24, 2009, 09:55:34 am Thanks for all the examples Joff. I think they illustrate it perfectly. Merit point for you :)
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