Carcassonne Central

Here is one that is actually an original idea, only the credit belongs to my wife.  This was her idea for the two blank "creativity" tiles.  Each tile could have a city section on it (size or bordering items not important).  Inside the city section is a wormhole (or tunnel entrance if you prefer) that links to two pieces.  If played in the same city they have no effect, but played in two different cities, they would link them regardless of their position in relation to each other and would essentially make them into one city.  

Well, I guess some great minds think alike.  Check out "Spatial Manifold" in this post (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=666.0) which was posted a couple of months ago.

Wow, didn't realize how old this one was...

JPutt has very graciously agreed to help me finish this one.  Thanks man!

Here are the tiles I had in mind.  Not the exact ones, but the layout anyway.  We should probably do without the recourses.  I want one to have a road and the other not to have one.  This image was just easy to get since these two tiles were next to each other.  Took me a while to find it. 

(http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs149.snc1/5536_635711976498_55705953_37300267_1040361_n.jpg)

Shall I take this off the Collaborative Expansion list then?

Yes, you can remove it from the list.  It should be finished soon.

It's removed from the list.  Perhaps JPutt927 will finish up some of the other expansions on that list and we won't need to do collaborative expansions anymore ;)

Maybe when meepleater comes back, the three of us can colaborate on the LotR. 

I hope the three of us does not include me.  I've got my hands full at the moment (and for the forseeable future).  Unless of course, it gets voted as the Collaborative expansion of the month...

I think we've finally managed to tweak our design to where we wanted it. Here's what we've ended up with...

(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/wormhole9.jpg)
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/wormhole8.jpg)

Hmm?  I thought we were doing a Magic Portal sort of idea with like a gate or something?  This looks too sci-fi to be medieval Carcassonne to me...

Well, those were never the thoughts or ideas in which I was handed. I simply crafted the design of what the creator envisioned. To be honest, the idea of a wormhole and/or portal seems very sci-fi as a whole. However, I don't necessarily find anything to be wrong with that. I can see your point that it may be a little "out there" for the world of Carcassonne, but that may also be up for debate. I suppose I can always mess around more with the design and even go back to the drawing board if I have to...  Maybe we can get some other opinion's on it as well.

Please don't get me wrong.  I think the tiles are excellent graphically.  Thematically though, it just doesn't feel right to me - it just seems a lot out of character.

A magic portal would be more in the line of the magic and fantasy that was started by P&D.  Just a thought.

No, I was referring to JPutt if he's willing.

Yes, we did discuss alternatives such as some sort of tunnel or something like that, but I thought I'd give the original idea a go and see how it looked.  If nobody likes them, we can abandon them, but I'd be sorry for my friend's good work to go to waste.  

Agreed, but I'm not sure how we could take that concept and make it unique without starting from scratch anyway.  Any thoughts?

Well, there's nothing wrong with it, if that's how you want it.  As I said, it looks great visually.  Thematically though, it really doesn't fit what Carcassonne stands for, and I'm beginning to repeat myself. ;D

I think the concept is unique, the expansion would probably be more accepted by the general pubilc (and maybe HiG ;) ) if the graphics would fit in with the rest of Carcassonne thematically.  As has been discussed, one of those ways would be to make it a fantasy-theme expansion with a magic portal/gateway (e.g. Magic Mirror?) instead of the more sci-fi Wormhole.  That's just a name-change (and would require a change of graphics), and I feel that it would be better.  Anyways, the decision is not mine :)

Yes, I agree with many of your insites.  However, we're simply chasing an idea to see where it goes.  If we scrap it all and change it tomorrow, so be it.  I have little to no intention of offering it to HiG as is.  This one is for my wife and just for fun. 

Well, I went back to the drawing board...just for the sake of having another option.  I tried sticking more to the "fantasy" theme, more along the lines of the Princess & the Dragon. Here's what I've come up with...  Let's get some opinions!

(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/wormhole_new-1.jpg)

Definitely like it more, although I didn't mind the craziness of the old version. But this one is definitely more in-theme. If you can try and find a way to make the portal stand out without needing the arrows, that would be ideal, methinks.

For comparison's sake, here's one without the arrows. I'd like to hear what some others think about the arrows.

(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/wormhole_new2.jpg)

This is an excellent alternative.  I think there are pros and cons to the arrows.  They certainly remind me of the magic portal (I assume that's where you got them) and I think that goes a long way toward helping people understand the concept before they even hear what it is.  However, I also think it might look better without the arrows. 

You are certainly talented my friend!  I really like the portal!  I think with the space available on that tile, I'd be interested to see what it looks like if you increase the size of the portal itself, maybe even by half, and if we keep the arrows, maybe decreasing their size.  They might be OK viewing the tile at normal size.  I'm having a bit of trouble picturing it "life size" with your image as big as it is.  My brain can't seem to make the translation.  Although, it certainly does make it very easy to work with. 

Thanks for weighing in on this one Whaley (or in your case, should that be "whaying" in?)  I'm corny, I know!  ;D  I kinda wish more people provided their comments more regularly.

You're welcome. I too think it would look good slightly larger, maybe with some runic symbols or something around the arch. I still stand by not having arrows, though. Perhaps moving the portal closer to the center (and moving the buildings out of the way or removing them) would also help. For some reason, I am visualizing something like the portals in Diablo II or in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. Also, JPutt, can you sample a size of the tile for us that is the actual size? I believe that is like 80x80 pixels but I can't quite remember.

Here's some slightly larger versions...any larger and I personally do not like it at all. I've included both arrows and no arrows, once again for comparisons sake. Also, an attempt at an "actual size" pictue.
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/wormhole_big2.jpg)
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/wormhole_big.jpg)
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/wormhole_to_size.jpg)

Looks good!  Larger is definitely an improvement.  Not sure how I feel about the arrows though.  I'm torn because of the association factor.  Maybe we'll get lucky and get a few more insites to help us make a decision. 

I'm completely torn on the arrows as well. I sure hope we can get more thoughts to help make the decision even the slightest bit easier. So, if you're reading this!...arrows or no arrows? Thoughts please!  :)

In regards to the arrows, after much consideration, I personally feel that no arrows is slightly better. My reason is that the wormhole goes both ways, not just inward. Since the arrows are only pointing in one direction, it does not seem to follow with the theme of the tiles, which is the city has a portal connecting it to another city in which travel between the two would flow in both directions. Kind of a semi-scientific view, but one that helped me settle the debate personally. Nice pictures!!!

You've got a point there.  I did actually consider that and wondered if we should put arrowheads on both ends, but decided that would look funny.  Anyway... Welcome to the forum!  Let me know via PM if I can help you find your way around.

Well, it sounds like the "P&D" arrow's are out! So, here's one more design to discuss... it's as if the arrow has been drawn by the townspeople into the ground in front of the wormhole.

(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/wormhole_new3.jpg)

I don't know if a wormwhole or similar can be even imaginally interpreted out of some medieval story, but I find the purple colour too "modern" looking.
Couldn't the spiral be more dark brown + white? I don't want anyone to associate with neon, nightclubs or anything else unholy.

I love the arrow!  It's 10 x's better than the others.  As to the purple color, I think it makes the tile pop.  This is important for it's use.  If you're playing mege-Carc with 300+ tiles, you need to find these two tiles quickly and easily.  

Did you do the layer thing on this one too?  The swirls look like they have some depth.

Welcome to the forum Lavendel!

Well, I like the new tile designs much better than the first. I quite like the double headed arrow, but I am also think the neon purple is too bright.

I like the new arrow. Much more in-style. I'm indifferent concerning the color. Overall, the expansion is looking much better

I couldn't agree more on all counts.

Great job JPutt! 
 ;)

Well, suggestion time I'd suppose. Several of you are commenting that the portal may be too bright. What colors do you think it should be? Should it be all new colors?...or the same colors, but simply not as intense? I do appreciate your thoughts... Glad to hear you're all approving of it so far.  :)

My wife's suggestion, ever the artist, was to use the color scheme of the rest of the game.  That is, the green of the grass, the orange...ish color of the house roof's (wow!) rooves, and the blue of the river.  You could use those colors to swirl together in the gate.  Not sure if it will work, but maybe you could give it a shot.  

As to the expansion name, I guess wormhole has been sufficiently vetoed.  We all seem to like to refer to this structure as a "gate".  Any suggestions on the gate theme?

Here's a "lighter" colored portal. I took CKorfmann's suggestion (or rather, his wife's) to use some of the existing game colors. Here's how it ended up...what does everyone think?
I, for one, would like to finally get this design finalized!...I'm sick of looking at swirls!  :-\

(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/wormhole_light.jpg)

Hey buddy, this is you and me...  I really didn't mind the purple.  When you are ready to quit, that is fine with me.  I really like what you've done.  This one looks good too, but it doesn't stand out like the purple does.  I'll be satisfied when you are.  Just let me know what you want to do.  I don't blame you for getting tired of this one.

Well, hopefully we can find out if some other's like the latest design better than the purple/pink one. I like them both, but I think I prefer the purple one just a little bit more. I'd be willing to go with the lighter one if that's what the majority wants. I also wouldn't be opposed to trying one more set of colors if anyone thinks they'd have a good idea of what to use. Other than that...let's get some opinion's once more...and then we'll settle on something!

I prefer the purple to this new portal. But I still don't like the purple a ton. Why don't you try The River blue? It is a Carcassonne color, but it is not very common, especially in cities. And I really like blue. I totally am there with you about the looking at swirls all day. I worked at a fun house for one summer and I absolutely hated it...the music...THE MUSIC!!!

Surprisingly, and I know it's hard to tell, but the last design actually has a good deal of the river blue in it. It's actually kind of a "blah" colored blue when it's not in abundance (such as on the river tiles). I made another design using only blue and I tried brightening the river blue a bit. It stood out a bit more, but looked too much like a whirlpool of water for my liking.

I'd say try more orange, but I'd be afraid it would blend in with the houses too much.  Maybe all green?

Yep, I've tried more orange as well, and you're right...it does blend in with everything too much. I suppose it's time to try some green!

I think there's more pictures in this thread than there is text! But alas, here's a green portal.

(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/wormhole_green.jpg)

Well, it looks good, but I don't think it's better than the purple.  I think the purple one gets my vote and I assume, at this point, you're ready to call it good, right?

Purple. Go!

Alright, I'm ready to call it! But not before making one last portal. So without further ado, here's my final choice for the portal. Less bright than the original, yet still purple...why didn't I think of this originally!?   ???

(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/wormhole_final.jpg)

Stick a fork in it!  I like it.  I'll have the rules done in a few days when I get the opportunity.  Many thanks...

I'll have to make the second tile soon to complete it. Many thanks to you too for putting up with all the different designs!

Yes, I much prefer that last purple colour. Excellent work.

The thanks goes all to you my friend.  I had the easy part.

Bueno! Keep it, make the rules, call it done. Woot.

Here's the second city tile...I'll be putting both the tiles into a printable format soon.

(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/jputt927/wormhole_final2.jpg)

Great!  I should be able to sew this up tomorrow.

By the way, did anyone have any suggestions for name changes?

The Gateway. The King's Gate. Mysterious Portal.

Guardian of Forever  ;D

Stargate

I like The King's Gate.

I think that you can tell a reasonable plausible story from that title.

I think I like King's Gate too.  Unless something better comes along, I think that will be it. 

JPutt, would you be able to post images of both tiles at actual size?  I'll use those to put in the rules document.  Thanks.

King's Gate sounds pretty good to me too. I say we go with it!

Yay! I named an expansion!

I vote for King's gate... sounds pretty good...

This is finished finally.

You can view the rules HERE.
...and the tiles HERE.

lol! You made the rules and thought up the concept! That's something.

I was actually my wife's idea.  I've got a few fixes to make before it's done.

HERE (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=68cb07b2e2b7f2171bee9a6e9edd9c76e04e75f6e8ebb871) are the fixed rules.
HERE (http://www.mediafire.com/?ieyyejazvyk) are the tiles in the right proportions.

The original links are dead.

A few comments.

1. Place a tile.  Comment: "When the two King’s Gate tiles are placed in different cities, both cities are considered to be as one."  Statement unclear what one thing both cities are considered to be.  I think you mean "considered to be the same city".

2. Deploying a Follower.  Comment: "All followers placed in both cities containing the King’s Gate are counted together when calculating the majority."  The proper phrase is "determining who has the most knights in the city" instead of "calculating the majority".

3. Score.  Comment: "No scoring takes place until both cities containing the King’s Gate tiles are finished or the game comes to an end." That sounds omnimous!  "finished" is vague as the rules normally uses "completed".  "the game comes to an end" would be better phrased (and is usually done so in the rules) as "the end of the game".

Rev it up to 1.0 after that and PDF it and I'll upload it to Public Downloads.

Thanks for your comments.  As with shepherds, I'll try to do this soon, but it might take a little while.

HERE (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=68cb07b2e2b7f2171bee9a6e9edd9c76e04e75f6e8ebb871) is the final revision.  HERE  (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=68cb07b2e2b7f2171bee9a6e9edd9c76e04e75f6e8ebb871) are the tiles.

You forgot to put the expansion's title in the title line on the rules and you acknowledge Gantry twice with the same praise (not that praise is bad, but you could probably remove him from the first praise list).

Thanks for the comments.  Corrected and updated the link.  I don't have a PDF program.  Sorry!  :-\  Anyone know where I can get a good free one?

You might want to remove the blue box for the tiles (it'll consume a lot more ink than necessary when printing) and add in the title instead of "Title here".

Good free PDF maker = PDF Redirect (http://www.exp-systems.com/).

I thought I had fixed that!  I did it twice.  I guess I messed it up somehow.  Oh well, the link will be updated and I'll removed the blue box.  That's a good idea.  

Incidentally, how do you get that textured blue box you've used a couple times?  I like that one a lot better.

That PDF Redirect is really nice and easy to use, even for a dumby like me!  Perhaps we could put it somewhere for everyone to see and use if they wish.  It might be helpful to others too.

Good job on this expansion! I don't think I would have done it as well. An idea without follow-through is just an idea. Thanks for polishing it up and sharing it with everybody. :-)

I know you are busy Korf, but when you do get the time, could you get the PDF versions ready for me to upload to the public downloads?  Thanks!

Sorry about that.  I don't know what happened to them.  I thought for sure I had already done that.  Anyway the updated rules are HERE (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=68cb07b2e2b7f2171bee9a6e9edd9c76e04e75f6e8ebb871) and the tiles are HERE (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=68cb07b2e2b7f2171bee9a6e9edd9c76e04e75f6e8ebb871).

Added to Public Downloads.

Hi all

So it says in the rules: "All tile features that effect scoring for either city (cathedral tiles, siege tiles, etc) effect the total combined score for both cities."

So just to be clear, does this mean if one city with the KG has a cathedral and the other doesn't, the one without also gets 3 pts per city tile & pennant, or are they simply scored individually as 2 seperate cities with the majority landowner getting the combined total? It says "When the two King’s Gate tiles are placed in different cities, the two are considered to be the same city" so I assume the former applies.

I'm sure the answer is in the quote from the rules and I'm just reading it wrong, but any clarification would be appreciated :)

Yes, the answer is in the quote.  The two cities are considered to be as one and are scored as one, as if they were connected.  So, a cathedral, a siege tile, or anything else would affect both cities.  I guess in essence, there are not two cities at all, but really one, connected by the King's Gate.  Also, all followers in "both" cities count toward the majority of the whole.  Does this clarify things?

Yes it does, thanks.  :)