Carcassonne Central

Ok, let us start off with a fairly simple expansion (which might end up more complicated ;) ). This one is based on an idea taken directly from The Princess and the Dragon.


I ordered a devil playing piece from www.spielmaterial.de (http://www.spielmaterial.de) for this expansion. I knew it would be large. Here is a picture to give you some idea of the size when compared to the Angel playing piece (a Fairy piece):

(http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/ark/angel_and_devil.gif)

The size is ok. I thought that to explain the difference in size and still keep to a basic Biblical theme, that the devil might well be a larger playing piece, but compared to the Angel of the Lord he is powerless (even a 'small' Angel is much stronger than Satan).

So what have we got. Well, at first I thought it would be a direct replacement for the Dragon and Fairy in The Princess and the Dragon. But perhaps there can be more than this. Maybe the Angel could 'guard' an area similar to a cloister. The devil could not move into the Angels area, but the Angel could move into the devils area and nulify the devil's effects. Perhaps there is a more fitting Biblical story that can be ultilised. What could those effects be?

It would even be appropriate to use the Dragon piece too, because Satan is pictured as a dragon in the book of Revelation (and perhaps others).

Allowing the Angel to negate the effects of the Devil, but not vice versa, would be very appropriate. I can't think of a specific passage to support this, but I'm quite confident in it. Also, the Devil should have no effect on Prophet meeples. Perhaps meeples near a temple or near a Prophet are also protected?

The effect of the Devil meeple is that it prevents other meeples from scoring when features are completed. It would probably play best if the Devil meeple had influence over a 9-tile area instead of just the tile it is currently on.

A second Dragon was my original intent, but that is used in my Dual Dragon expansion. When I saw the devil game piece, I thought it would fit better. But, yes, a Dragon could easily be symbolic of the devil and used in this expansion.

Certainly the devil has no control over a Temple area (and perhaps a Prophet's city). He also would have no control over any tile that contains the Ark.

I like the 9 tile area that you suggest for the devil, I was thinking of a 9 tile area for the Angel of the Lord also... heh, wait a minute, isn't this the Jester and the Minstrel in disguise ;)

MOD: Hmmm.... AotC expansion?  This is in the wrong place.  Moving to spin-off!

I'm still not sure if that looks like a horned devil, the tail end of a fish sticking up, an egg-holder or something else altogether :)  I think this piece, if it was black, would probably look like an altar of some sort...

My wife says that it is a red dress!

It does look like a red dress!  But I guess it's up to you as to what you are going to do with it for the expansion :)

The anachronism aside (there is no Satan in the role of opposing God in old T), one Idea would be to use the devil as a corruptor. Place him near some other player's meeple, and have it converted to your coulor. But maybe only for a round or two (maybe a little too much to keep in mind though) or only for as long as the Devil is still close by.

Without wishing to go into a Bible study, I disagree with this (unless you mean something different). Satan does appear in the OT (Genesis, Deuteronomy, 1 Chronicles, Job, Psalms, Ezekiel).

However that aside,


That idea is not a particularly bad one. Like you said, it might be quite a bit to remember. This mechanic might be useful in other variants/expansions also.

"one Idea would be to use the devil as a corruptor. Place him near some other player's meeple, and have it converted to your coulor."

How about this: Evenever the devil is moved near a mepple of another player (lets say with a 9-tile influence range), the meeple is converted. This is shown by laying the meeple on the side (as for farms) and placing a mepple of your own colour on top. As soon as the devil is moved away, the meeple on top goes back to the players supply and the other meeple is turned upright again. When a player moves the devil into an area where several other meaples are influenced he can (1) convert all of them or (2) only convert up to 1/2/3...

Of course a woman would see a red dress!  No offense....   ;)  Not sure if religious topics are appropriate here, but would you consider yourself a born-again Christian Joff?  Just curious.  (Wow, a sexist and religious remark all the the same post, I'm good... or is that bad?)   :a4 

The 'religious' topic has already been discussed and split from this thread and placed in the 'Anything Else' forum ( http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=803.0 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=803.0)). However, I do not wish to continue down that route, as I agree that CC is not the place for 'religious' discussion (except for purposes of AotC expansions) , but to answer your question then yes, I do :)

This thread got a little side-tracked. Joff, do you want to write up the rules and upload a PDF?

I notice that this expansion was not finished. I just did some thinking about it, and it seems to me that the Ark mechanic is very similar to the Fairy mechanic. The Leper is basically a tamer version of the Dragon (lose a point instead of lose the feature you're on). This Angel/Devil expansion feels too similar as it currently stands.

I don't want to say that this expansion should be turfed if there perhaps a way to save the concept. Since the Ark and Leper have only a single-tile area of effect, I propose that the Angel and Devil have a larger area of effect: either a fixed number of tiles (9 as suggested earlier), or the entire feature on which the figure is located.

Since the Ark and Leper already give/take points, the Angel and Devil need to do something different. I would like to suggest that the Devil hinders the ability to complete any feature within his area of influence. This is fairly tame, which should appease those who dislike the traditional Dragon mechanic. The Angel negates the effect of the Devil, or perhaps drives him away entirely. This brings into question when and how these pieces actually move. One thing I thought of is that perhaps, since temples are not really the same as cloisters, the High Places could be like dragon tiles instead of shrines, triggering the movement of the Devil meeple.