Carcassonne Central

This new expansion brings in a new follower in the game.
The meeples I have used are the ones from Carcassonne: Mayflower (or A New World as it is titled in some countries).
The rules will be uploaded by Joff soon.

.../Wicke

Here are wicke's rules: The Noblemen 0.1 (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/Noblemen_0_1.pdf)

Here are wicke's rules: The Noblemen 0.3 (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/Noblemen_0_3.pdf)

One quick comment about the picture in the rules document.  Is that from BGG?  Does it need permission from the owner to be used and does the owner need to be credited in the Acknowledgements?

I like it.

The opening narrative needs a comma somewhere.

In footnote 3, when you write Noblemen, you should use the verb are.

Yes, Novelty, have added that the picture is from BGG.

Thanks Scott, new version is sent to Joff for upload.

.../Wicke

Latest rules: The Noblemen 0.4 (draft) (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/Noblemen_0_4.pdf)

Just a suggestion: If you use the meeples image from the New World/Mayflower rules, they will look better.

I agree. The rules would look better with those images. I have done the necessary graphic work and updated the last rules link (0.4) to include those figures.

Joff, you might have to reduce the size of those images to get them to look better, and maybe remove the acknowledgement to "BGG" since you're no longer using that image.

Preparation, rephrase: Each player receives at least 3 new new followers (Noblemen) of their colour at the start of the game, and an extra new follower for each of the following fan-made expansions that is used: Fishermen, Forests.
Comment:That would mean that footnotes 4 and 5 can be deleted.

Footnote 1, comment: I think the footnote should also include the following phrases "It is a suggestion that..." and "Other pieces may also be used."

Comment: Footnote 9 and the last sentence of footnote 6 (both saying the same thing) might be better placed in the text of the first paragraph under the "Deploying the Noblemen" section.

Comment: The second paragraph in the "Deploying the Noblemen" section needs to state that it is only counted with a strength of 2 when determining majority, with a footnote by Joff to say whether or not it counts during Tournaments.

Comment: The second sentance of the third paragraph in the "Deploying the Noblemen" section would be more clear if it starts with "For example,"

Question: Is a normal nobleman taken back when the feature that it is on is scored?  I assume that it is, but I'm not sure.

Comment: I don't think there needs to be mention of "large white Noblemen" everywhere throughout the rules document.  Using only one of the two adjectives would probably be sufficient.

Comment: The first sentence in "The large white Noblemen" section needs to specify that it is the non-white Noblemen.  Otherwise, if a RED has 3 RED noblemen and one white nobleman, RED would have to deploy all 4 of those to get the 2nd white nobleman.

"The large white Noblemen" section, rephrase: If a player have deployed all his (or her) coloured Noblemen, and all these Noblemen currently have the majority in the feature that they are on, then that player, on deploying the last coloured Noblemen, may gain control of an unclaimed large/white Nobleman.
Comment: Added a timing clause, otherwise, a player can claim both the white noblemen when all their noblemen in play have the majority in the feature that they are on.

Question: Who has control of the white noblemen if it is the only follower on the feature, since it is a neutral figure?  Is it the player that places the white nobleman on the feature?  e.g. If RED places a white noblemen on a road, does that mean RED now has a strength of 3 on that road?

Question: How does the a player "gain majority" with respect to a white nobleman?  e.g. RED has 1 large white follower on a city.  Green connects his city with one follower to the city that RED has 1 large follower.  Does that mean that GREEN now has the majority in the city?  Or does RED still have majority?

Question: What happens in the event of a tie with the white nobleman during scoring?  Are ties broken in favour of the original owner (the person who placed the white noblemen)?  What happens when the persons who has the tied majority is not the person who placed the white noblemen?  e.g. RED places a noblemen into a city with 5 pennants.  However, both GREEN and BLUE teleports their mayor into the city when it scores so that now GREEN and BLUE has the majority.  Who takes the white noblemen?

Comment: The last sentence of footnote 3 is a duplicate of the infomation in the "large white Noblemen" section and may be deleted.

Comment: I think the Scoring section is superfluous and can be deleted.

I hope that helps.

Latest rules: The Noblemen 0.5 (draft) (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/Noblemen_0_5.pdf)

Some more comments, as usual, bold = addition, strikethroughs = deletions

Footnote 1: "1 It is a suggestion that meeples from Carcassonne: Mayflower can be used for this expansion, (in some countries the game is titled New World: A Carcassonne Game). There is only five colours (6 of each), if you need more, you have to paint some of the meeples in the other colours. Other pieces may also be used instead."

First sentence, Deploying the Noblemen: "The Nobleman is deployed as any other follower4 according to the usual rules, but can not be deployed via the City of Carcassonne if playing with the expansion The Count,.  However, the noblemen but can be deployed via a magic portal."  Same sort of statement in the first statement of the second paragraph of The large white Noblemen with two "but"s in the sentence.

Comment, first sentence, The large white Noblemen: There is no timing clause for the sentence so the first player to deploy all his noblemen and have a majority in the features gets both the large white noblemen immediately according the rules as they are currently written.

Comment: Footnote 3 and the 2nd paragraph of The large white Noblemen contradicts each other and doesn't make sense.

Comment: The last clause, first sentence, second paragraph of The large white Noblemen "but equal majority is not enough" doesn't make sense.  Suggest rephasing to "A tie is insufficient for another player to gain control of the large white Noblemen."

Comment: Question after Footnote 7 is not linked to the text - should it be linked to the second paragraph of The large white Noblemen?  Also the answer is vague - which question is it answering to be the "special case"?

Comment: Perhaps Footnote 7 and the question after that should be rephrased and included in the main text (since it is about the expansion) instead of a footnote?

Comment: I think the Scoring section is superfluous and should be deleted.

First sentence, Deploying the Noblemen: "...if playing with the The Count..."

Answer: I would say that two "the" after each other sounds strange.

Comment, first sentence, The large white Noblemen: There is no timing clause for the sentence so the first player to deploy all his noblemen and have a majority in the features gets both the large white noblemen immediately according the rules as they are currently written.

Answer: Before it read "an" and now it reads "one", both are quite clear though, that you get only one.

Comment: Footnote 3 and the 2nd paragraph of The large white Noblemen contradicts each other and doesn't make sense.

Answer: No, they didn't contradict each other, but I have added the word "normal" into the footnote to make it clearer, and also I split the footnote into two, and put the other footnote later in the document.

Comment: Question after Footnote 7 is not linked to the text

Answer: It was, there were simply two questions in footnote 7

Comment: Perhaps Footnote 7 and the question after that should be rephrased and included in the main text

Answer: No, since it is such a special case

Comment: I think the Scoring section is superfluous and should be deleted.

Answer: Directly after I take this section out, I am sure to get a question, "How about scoring ???"

0.6 emailed to Joff
.../Wicke

Another update: The Noblemen 0.6 (draft) (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/Noblemen_0_6.pdf)

Thanks Joff:

OK, I don't really want to argue on this point, but I urge you to think about this:

"If a player have deployed all his (or her) normal Noblemen, and all these Noblemen currently have the majority in the feature that they are on, then that player may gain control of one unclaimed large white Nobleman 7,8."

Let's say I'm only playing with 3 noblemen and they are on a city, a road and a farm.  They have the majority in all 3 features.

So, according to that statement, I check if I have the majority on all the features right after playing the meeple.  Answer = yes, so I get one large white follower, if there is any available.

On the same turn, after scoring, I check if I have the majority on all the features right after playing the meeple.  Answer = yes, so I get one large white follower, if there is any available.

During the next player's turn at the beginning, I check if I have the majority on all the features right after playing the meeple.  Answer = yes, so I get one large white follower, if there is any available.

During the next player's turn after they have played the tile, I check if I have the majority on all the features right after playing the meeple.  Answer = yes, so I get one large white follower, if there is any available.

During the next player's turn after they have mtw, I check if I have the majority on all the features right after playing the meeple.  Answer = yes, so I get one large white follower, if there is any available.

During the next player's turn after they have scored, I check if I have the majority on all the features right after playing the meeple.  Answer = yes, so I get one large white follower, if there is any available.

etc. etc.  So then the first player who gets the majority gets all the large white followers based on the way the current rules are written!

I agree. When exactly do you get to claim a white follower? Is it only on your turn, and then only before scoring?

Modified rules after my comments: The Noblemen 0.7 (draft) (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/Noblemen_0_7.pdf)

ONE means one = 1,
one + one + one + one etc that Novelty is going on and on about doesn't add up to one.

and when isn't a problem either,
WHEN you have majority with all normal noblemen you gain control, that means that you can take the large white Nobleman from the side of the playing area and put it in your supply. That can happen in your turn or in someone elses turn.
If you have played a game of Carc, you know that things can happen in anybodys turn.

And since I wrote in the rules that the Nobleman is a follower in all aspects of the word, I believe it is clear when you get to place the large white Nobleman as well.

I don't think Novelty requires a maths lesson at all, just an answer to the question.

Novelty's point is: the rules do not explain how often or when you get the one white follower. So the question is; when do you take possession of the large white follower? Before scoring or after scoring, and is it only on your turn? What would happen if another player lays a tile that gives you the majority in each of the features on their turn? Do I claim a white follower at that point?

For example, if I have the majority in the 3 features (road, city, farm), but the city is completed. Do I take the white follower before scoring or do I score first? If I score first, I have to remove my followers from the city so therefore I would no longer have a majority on a city and therefore would not be entitled to a white follower.

Well, i'm more confused than ever now!

BTW, when you edit a post, it is not a good idea to remove parts of that post after someone has replied to it, unless you supply a reference as to what you have changed and why. I say this because it makes my post look as if I haven't bothered to read your post, which I have. >:(

I did not edit my post after you had replied to it.