Carcassonne Central

This is my next project. Here are a few brief notes. As usual, a rules document in draft form will follow shortly. Any comments are welcome.


The Leper

The Leper is a nomad piece.

When a player completes the first city, after scoring for the city, the Leper is placed into this city by the player who completed it. The placing player may choose which tile of the city the Leper begins on.

On a player’s turn, after placing a tile, a player may move the Leper 5 spaces. The Leper must move 5 spaces; unless it is illegal to do so (i.e. the Leper has reached a dead end). The Leper moves horizontally or vertically over the playing area and must not backtrack during his 5 tile movement.

For every follower that the Leper comes into contact with in the course of his movement, the owner of the follower loses 2 points.

If the player has a zero score, he does not lose any points.

Boundaries do not affect the Leper’s movement.

The Leper is a neutral figure and is not owned by any player.

A Leper cannot be removed by a Dragon.

A Leper cannot be captured by a Tower.

If a follower is protected by the Fairy, the Leper can come to rest upon or move over the tile, but the follower will not lose 2 points.

Builders, Pigs and Barns do not lose any points.

The presence of the Leper does not impact upon followers when scoring for any features.

If a follower is on the tile from where the Leper begins his movement, the follower does not lose 2 points.

Incredible, I have two counts (since I bought Graf, König und Konsorten) and last night I started to think about making a variant with a neutral figure so that I can use the second count. But last night I didn't come up with any ideas.
Now this morning I noticed your "The Leper", that might be just right, what do you think.
Or is the count too big for The Leper ?

I don't think it matters on the piece that is used, as long as it can be differentiated between the others.

I am reminded of the mechanic from The Ark of the Covenant. It sounds like that, except in reverse.

Yes, it piggybacks directly from the Ark mechanic, which is where I took it from. I have also been considering a similar mechanic as the Prophet in Ark. Something like a King who visits a city only once but can score double and then removed from the game.

I like it as I think more neutral figures are kinda cool.



Obviously playtesting would tell whether this works but at first glance 5 spaces might seem much. Additionally, I would make it so the Leper could move up to 5 spaces rather than forcing 5. As opposed to the Dragon who is supposedly on a hunger rampage, the Leper is just wandering around.



Yes! The Dragon does not like the taste of Leper meat!!!




Yes! The people in the Tower don't want to associate with the Leper.

Cool.

I thought it came from there. Not sure I like it moving every move either... maybe have it as a separate MTW action (as opposed to after every MTW), but if it is moved, it has to move 5 spaces.

And the prophet... how about each player has a crown, and when your big follower into a city, you can choose to place it lying down with a crown on it. It counts as having only 1 strength (instead of 2), but means that that player will score double from that city if it completes. The crown leaves the game whenever it is present in a city when it is scored.

Possible variants:
- The crown leaves the game whenever the follower leaves the board. Meaner variant, because of the towers and the dragon.
- The crown can be placed on a small follower as well as a large follower. When placed on a small follower, he still has 1 strength. Makes the crown easier to use.
- The crown is not placed with a follower, but can instead be used (as a MTW action) to convert a big follower down to strength 1 but giving double points.
- There is no crown, and this instead becomes an ability of the big follower when being placed in a city only.
- There is no crown, and instead each player has an additional figure which acts like the prophet. Not sure this is a good route to go down.
- There is only a neutral crown (instead of one per player, although a second may be needed), and the person who controls the king tile may relinquish it to place their big follower with the crown. The target size to take the king again stays in effect.

As this piggybacks directly from The Ark of the Covenant, (which, being Biblically minded, I REALLY want to get, but it seems out of stock everywhere I try in the UK. This version would also help when I introduce Carcassonne to family (I have several preachers, ministers and Christian folk within my family)), I do not see the 5 tile movement as a problem at all, as this mechanic has been subjected to playtesting already in The Ark of the Covenant (for moving the Ark) and it seems to work very well indeed, as several BGG reviews are testimony to.

You misunderstand my intention. As it is the same mechanic as Ark, it's movement is instead of moving-the-wood for a player, not 'as well as'.

I think the misunderstanding comes from how I wrote the original draft rules above. However, when I wrote 'The Leper must move 5 spaces; unless it is illegal to do so', I was referring to the amount of spaces it has to move if a player chooses to move the Leper as his move the wood option.

Hope this clears it up.

I will start a new thread for this. I have PM'd you regarding this Lardarse :)

Ah. In that case, the five tile move makes sense.

Just sand off a few bits and it'll work fine.  :o

Here are the draft rules (ver 0.1): The Leper 0.1 draft (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/leper_0_1.pdf)

I'm just wondering if it might be worth it to have The Leper and the (?)Prophet(? or something else) instead - i.e. 2 different neutral pieces that does something the opposite to each other, just like the Jester and Minstrel.  Just a thought.

Anyways, added to the "In Development" list/thread.

Just a thought:

*Is it intentional that you could - complete the first city that has a builder with one's first tile, place the leper, draw your 2nd tile and place it and then move the leper, all in one turn?

and I was just about to release the final version...

Yes, you could intentionally do that. Once the first city is complete and scoring has taken place, the Leper is placed within the city.

Well, if that is not allowed, then a statement saying that the leper cannot be moved the turn it is placed might be sufficient.  Then again, there's nothing stopping it from being moved twice a turn in an extended turn, so... the question is, do you want to allow these scenarios?

I also think there should be a means to heal the leper so that it can reappear when the next city is completed.  That though would need both the above restrictions, or otherwise, it may become too "griefy".

a bit of food for thought from Novelty there...

Ok, here is a draft release of The Leper. I have decided to keep it as a one piece expansion as opposed to a two piecer like 'Jester and Minstrel'.

Changes in this version include:

I have decreased the point deduction value from 2 to 1. The Leper was deemed far too powerful.
Used Novelty's suggestion that the Leper cannot move more than once during a player's turn.
The Leper can be moved to a newly completed city instead of a player 'moving the wood'.

I hope these changes are clear.

Draft rules (ver 0.2): The Leper 0.2 draft (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/leper_0_2.pdf)

My comments and proofread:

Text could do with some justification.

It would be nice to use the image from The city instead of the white meeple.  Do you want me to 'shop up the meeple from the city for you?

Must the leper be placed on the completed city?  If so, why would there still be any meeples in that city?  If not, the text is unclear that it could be on any city.

Bold text = additions, strikethroughs = deletions required

"The Leper is a nomad playing piece. Now that When the Leper is on the playing surface you have the option a player may, instead of usual ‘moving the wood’,4 movinge the Leper instead, or taking no action. Remember, the Leper cannot move during the same turn that it has been placed."

"If a player you decides to move the Leper, the Leper you must be moved him 5 tile spaces, unless it is illegal not possible to do so (i.e. a dead end is reached)."

General comment: Try not to use "you" because what happens when someone else (not the reader) does something?  It is ambiguous!  I've replaced the "you" above were appropriate, but I think the rest of the document needs the same treatment.

"For every follower5 that the Leper comes into contact with during the course of his movement, theat player owner of the follower loses 1 point."

Can the leper cross rivers that have no bridge across them?  With the dragon and the fairy, they are flying, but the leper doesn't have such an advantage does it?  and unlike the jester and the minstrel, nobody would want to ferry it across a river.

That would be good... I prefer the meeple from The Castle though ;)

I'll see what I can do.  The one from the castle is the conehead meeple right?

Agree


Yes, the Leper must be placed on the completed city. There would be no followers in that city, but there might well be a follower on a road which appears on the tile of the city segment that the Leper is moved to.


Agree. I will update where necessary.


Yes, he can. Otherwise the Leper movement becomes far too complicated. The Leper does go for a swim in the river in the deaperate hope that the river will wash his leporsy away... cool water also eases the itching.


Edit:Yes, you have it as the picture for The Leper in the Developments thread :)

I was trying to get white when I got gold, so here's the Leper and the King (or whatever you're gonna rename King since that would clash with King and Scout).

I love the gold effect!

This would be a very appropriate AotC expansion too...

Draft rules (ver 0.3): The Leper 0.3 draft (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/leper_0_3.pdf)

Some more comments:

"That is a terrible cry to hear for the residents of Carcassonne."
would probably be better phrased as
"That is a terrible cry for the residents of Carcassonne to hear."

"comes into contact" is a bit misleading when you mean "is on the same tile as".  As the rules are written, if I move the leper piece carefully so that it doesn't touch (i.e. come into contact) any followers when it is moving through the square that the followers are on, then the followers do not lose any points.  This I think is outside the intention of the rules.

Minor quibbles:
* The term "neutral piece" is a bit vague - neutral towards what?; "not owned by any player" might be a better description.
* Likewise with the "nomad playing piece" statement.  What exactly is the purpose of this statement?  Neither the fairy or the dragon or the wagon has this description, at least not that I know of.
* There is no clarification as a footnote that the Leper can cross rivers (or city walls)
* "Boundaries do not affect the Leper's movement" can be read to mean that the Leper can skip over tiles or move into a "hole" not occupied by a tile, since the only "boundary" in the game is the tile edge.


Also, I notice the "Rule format..." comment on the margins.  Do you want us to put that into all our rule documents as well?

Thanks Nov. I will have a look at all these in due course and update the rules accordingly.

With regards to the rules format comment. I have issued the majority of my rules documents with this comment (when a few otheres had had my template)... it has just stayed in them on the template since, but there is no need for others to follow suit. I am quite happy with other rules documents not containing the comment. It is a non issue for me really.

Draft rules (ver 0.4): The Leper 0.4 draft (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/leper_0_4.pdf)

I think everything is in there now!  Looks good. {nw

Ok, let's call this one finished then :)

Final release: The Leper (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/leper_1.pdf)

Now do an AotC version.

Sorry Joff, you'll have to wait until Tuesday when I get a computer to make it available for public downloads.Edit: I forgot Gantry has a different way of doing it which is web browser based.  I've used that for this, it's up now!

And I agree with Scott, there should be an AotC version as well!

All good things come to those that wait... and wait... and wait ;)

Seriously though, I think, although The Leper fits the biblical theme well, I think The Golden Calf will be using exactly this mechanic (at present)... we will see. I would like to finish off The King, and then begin compiling AotC expansions, which are at present, very thin on the ground.

If anyone has any ideas for AotC expansions/variants, please feel free to post them here: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=620.0 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=620.0)

When will Godot come? :)

Seriously though, no hurry getting this done.  I'm sure you'll do a great job with it.  Hopefully we'll soon have a separate forums for fan-made spin-offs that you can post your AotC expansions in.

???


I would prefer to keep AotC expansions seperate from regular Carcassonne expansions for ease, so a different forum for AotC would be great :)

Well, I have no idea when Gantry will get to it.  He does have other things taking up his time at the moment.  I would suggest, for now, just to prefix all the AotC threads with "AotC:" in front (e.g. "AotC:Ark of the Covenant") so that it's clear that it's for AotC and that when the time comes it can be moved easily to the new forum.

Newbie here and hoping that I'm getting the drift of this correctly.  I bought Carcassonne less than two weeks ago and can't get enough.

It would have been nice to have a leper colony tile.  Perhaps having a negative effect on surrounding tiles and used as a place where the leper might get moved to, eventually removing him (him?) from the game after a period of time.  Perhaps banished there by some other meeple with authority.

PP

Welcome to CC PP.

Perhaps you could have a go at expanding my expansion ;)

Thank you.

I'll have a think about this and will get back here later.

I also had a (separate expansion) idea about The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.  It seems to fit into the period and belief system pretty neatly.

War, Conquest, Famine and Death.

Death might remove a meeple - disadvantaging a player.
War might remove meeples from neighbouring cities.
Famine might remove or reduce farm scores.
Conquest might steal the score of a neighbouring city.

Where would I post the idea?

Start a new thread in the Variant Workshop (You are viewing a thread within the Variant Workshop. Top level url: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?board=6.0 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?board=6.0)).

Others will comment and provide suggestion, guidance, etc. so your idea can blossom :)

What if it is a virgin Leper?

Then it depends on whether the leper is male or female and whether there's a volcano nearby...

Be the player who throws the virgin leper into the volcano, which causes the dragon to dive in after that tasty treat, which plugs the volcano, thus saving Carcassone from leprosy, volcanoes and dragons in one turn... end of game bonus: double your score!