Carcassonne Central

In the above game I deliberately blocked completion of the huge city by playing the 4 sided piece elsewhere (top right of pic) as otherwise black would have beaten me (red) for the city.

The debate came at the end when my Dad (black) insisted that it could only be one city as only one piece could complete it (original + river only).

I was equally sure based on the rules that until such time as the 4 sided piece was played (which could not now happen) it remained as 3 separate cities, 2 1 tile cities and 1 10 tile city.

Could some one clarify which of us is correct?

(http://www.penguintransport.co.uk/carcquery.jpg)

I ask as despite having checked the FAQ my Dad says it doesn't address this issue as it is illogical for it to be more than 1 city as only one tile could complete it, I reckon it is logical according to the rules as a tactical blocking manouver.

Cheers,

HJ

It doesn't matter what expansions you are using, the basic rules of the game remain the same.  That potentially large city is in that picture is a 10 tile city and two 1 tile cities.  No matter what the circumstances or what expansions you are using, it will remain as a 10 tile and two 1 tiled cities until a piece is placed in that one spot to otherwise change that.

When final scoring of the game occurs, black and red would get 10 points each for the 10 tile city and black would get 1 point for the single tile city.
 
Hope this answers your questions.

Carcassonne is not a game of what will be but what is.  And what is in that picture is an uncompleted 10-tile city that's not connected to the other 1 tile pieces.  I agree with what Ordmantel says... it is a 10 tile + 1 tile + 1 tile city because it has not been completed.

I also wanted to comment on the cool circular road in the top left of the picture :)

Oh well, my father insists I email the makers for clarification as he claims that the rules say that it is one city as it has a wall round the edge, even with a huge gap in the middle...

We shall see what they say.

HJ

He can claim all he likes... but where does it say that in the rules? A city is only one city when the city is surrounded by walls AND there are no 'holes' within it.

Here is the official rules regarding cities:

"A city is complete when the city is surrounded by
a city wall with no gaps in the wall nor holes in
the city. A city may have many city segments.
The player who has a knight in a completed city
scores two points for each tile in the city (count
the tiles, not the segments). Each pennant on
segments in the city earns the player 2 points."

The word 'nor' gives it away ;)

I assume that your father was playing Black, as it would be to his advantage to argue this way ;)

Also, if I recall my game pieces correctly there is one out there that has a section of city on all 4 sides with a field in the center, none of them connected. and there is the 2 city piece that bridges one city over another (that one I am certain of). The bridge piece would have created 2 cities, one of 12 tiles and one of 2 tiles (to the left).

I'll try get pull out my set tonight and see if I can put together your scenarios.

A city is not completed until all gaps are filled.

But - since I have a father of my own - I can assume that he will be persistant with his judgement of the situation. The best thing to do is to make the same situation happen for you (reverse the roles) and see what he says.

Fathers have - apparantly - a right to be stubborn far beyond what is possible for any other form of mankind (except maybe women).  :O

The tile that you're thinking of definitely exists - but it's in the Inns and Cathedrals edition... (not that I think it makes a difference in this case).

Gotta love those father and son rivalries!

There are several tiles that will fill this hole and split the cities. I realise that you are only playing with Basic tiles and Inns and Cathedrals, but here are the tiles that would split the cities up:

Inns and Cathedrals: 1 tile
Traders and Builders: 2 tiles
King and Robber: 1 tile
The Tower: 1 tile
Abbey and Mayor: 1 tile and the Abbey tile

I think that's about it :)

Of course, there are 4 tiles that will join the city, with 1 from the base game, 2 cathedrals from I&C, and the double shield tile from A&M.

Page 67 of the latest CAR contains all the tiles that will fit a hole with cities on all 4 sides.