Carcassonne Central

I had just finished the draft rules when Scott came up with the same idea!!!

The Gallows (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/gallows_draft.pdf)

Edit: Credit to Scott also on the next rules release
Edit: Rules updated to credit Scott

Haha. Great minds think alike.

Wouldn't the guillotine (or however it's spelt) be better as a name since it's more french?  Just a thought...

It probably would be more historically accurate, but gallows appeal to the medieval setting of the game (regardless of the French setting).

Gallows ver. 0.2 draft rules (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/gallows02.pdf)

Comments? Suggestions?

Quoted from the 'In the Stocks' thread.

Why not, Cappy?

I've been thinking regarding the Gallows. Is this TOO much like the princess in P&D? The princess does exactly the same thing as I propose!

I think you should feel free to make anything you want - whether it will be used by other people will be a different story.  Casual friendly gamers will probably not bother with these, pardon my language, "screw the opponent" expansions (and there are also already a few official ones that does this).

The question you should be asking is, why do you want to make this?  If it is for yourself and for your own enjoyment, then by all means go ahead.  Sharing it with others would only increase the sense of satisfaction, but you don't need that in the first place because your original goal was to enjoy making it.

There's nothing wrong with doing it for any other reasons (like hoping HiG or RGG will use your idea and make it into an expansion, or to be popular with this or that crowd, or to make the most small expansions, or whatever), I suppose, but you might be setting yourself up for some (maybe major) disappointment.

I've been churning out the expansions I have been churning out, because those are the tiles I want to play with and I have fun making them.  I think that's reward enough for me.

I'm not sure about the point of issuing even a fan-made expansion that simply plagiarises from another. For example, my next attempt might be Manor House. I'll issue two tiles that depict Manor Houses. When these are laid on a city it will increase the citys value by one point when completed (because the lord of the manor resides in that city). However, if not completed, the city will score nothing. The artwork will be very nice... but does it really warrant an expansion... or am I simply stealing from Cathedrals? I'm not including any Tavern on a Loch tiles, but is this really a necessary expansion?

All I am saying is that The Gallows would be the Princess in a different form. Yes, there is no Dragon, Fairy or Magic portal to worry about, which might be a very good reason in itself for doing it. I don't play with P&D, but I'd love a tile or two that do exactly what the Princess does, without the full expansion being in there.


My goal is to make expansions that I would enjoy using AND what others might enjoy using, without complicated set up times. Expansions with little preparation work are much easier, i'm sure you'll agree. This is why I like Kevin Graham's Trading Posts and why this variant gets used so much in our games. Lets face it, having RGG or HiG release officially is a long shot (that's a seperate discussion of course). I would get satisfaction when I use an expansion it in my gaming groups games and they say something like, "I like that expansion", or someting similar! I also enjoy working on the rule sets, and the 'what if' questions, but there is no point or satisfaction if the expansion itself is not original. All the questions have already been answered!

In the case of Jousting Tournament, Invasion of Catharism, Orders of Chivalry and In The Stocks there are mechanics operating that are useful and they haven't been done before (AFAIK). They are original. IMO, originality is what makes for a great expansion and a fulfilling time creating the rules!

As I am also issuing expansions with CC branding. I would like to think that expansions that include different mechanics are indeed original... not just a CC rip-off of another official or even 'fan-made' expansion. I want them to be high quality, original and simply good expansions that people would enjoy adding to the mix and that perform something that is 'needed' or fits the theme well.


The expansions currently in development at CC are mostly good ones. The Forests expansion fits the theme nicely. Treasure Hunt is highly original (and I might add, one of the best for originality) and An Apple a Day has the makings of yet another good idea. The Authors of CC are fulfilling different 'needs'. I just don't want to plagiarise another's idea in the way that The Gallows might end up doing!

The tiles are interesting, and it would be a waste, not to go ahead with this.  However, it's your expansion, not mine and you must want to go on with it.  If you do, and think that the current concept plagiarises an existing concept or idea, then go back to the drawing board and change the concept.

When you first started with "Arise, Sir...", I thought there was nothing in there for me to want to ever use.  However, along the way, you took the advice (or is that advise?) of the posters here and changed it such that almost nothing about it was the same as the original concept.  Even the name became "The Orders of Chivary".  To me, it went from a "meh" expansion to a great expansion over the course of a few days as you redeveloped your idea and worked on it.

Likewise, I feel that the gallows has potential, but you have to be willing to work on it to make it be "high quality, original and simply good" and that "people would enjoy adding (them) to the mix" as you have posted above.  That's quite a high standard you have set there for yourself and I applaud you for it.  However, you and I both know that good things only comes with hard work.  As the saying goes, "No pain, no gain!".  Are you willing to work on it and redevelop it into an end product you'd be happy with and have fun with?  The ultimate answer lies with you.

Of course, I would be willing to develop it further. But in the first instance (and as it stands at present), it solves a often seen problem... the trouble is that the Princess does exactly the same. Perhaps 1 or 2 tiles that actually do exactly the same thing as Princess without actually being the Princess is acceptable. The whole point of The Gallows, at the start, was to rid of a problem follower!

Is there any other way of using gallows but to hang someone?

There are at the moment 2 ways to get rid of a problem follower - the dragon from the Princess and Dragon, and the Tower.  Both of those have heavy restrictions and IMO depends highly on the luck of the draw.  I'd be very cautious regarding adding an easy way to get rid of a follower easily.  You already have two mechanisms to remove knights from cities temporary (Jousting Tournament & In the stocks) and I think that should be enough.  Abbey and Mayors provided barns to remove farmers, so basically everything is almost covered.  I don't see the necessity of (another means to) removing a follower from a feature.

How about linking gallows to thieves instead?  Bandits are punishable by death concept.  That still fits the theme, but perhaps not the city tile.  Something for you to think about.

One way to make gallows different from princess is to leave the meeple in the gallows until the city is scored, rather than giving it back to the player right away. I also encourage you to think about Novelty's suggestion in the above post because it might lead to something entirely new.

That isn't a bad idea, Scott. At least in this case the follower has no possibility of return and no effect on the scoring of the city.

I am looking at the Thieves on roads aspect of Novelty's suggestion.

Updated rules:

The Gallows (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/gallows.pdf)

and a draft tile:

(http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/gallows.jpg)

Hmm... the black lines on the new stuff is too black when compared with the rest of the tile.  Is there anyway you could adjust your contrast so that the black is less black?  Otherwise it looks good.  BTW, Where did you get the image from?

The image was Googled!

Well, it's best to get a "free" image instead of any generic image that can be googled.  Otherwise, Gantry might get into problems for using images without permission.

I am aware of copyright issues regarding the use of the picture. At final release, all issues will be resolved.

Cool... great to hear :)

Although the raised platform seems to make it look nicer, I'm not sure if it's needed.  Perhaps a hangman noose of some sort would be enough?

A new draft tile (with copyright issue resolved, as I drew this one myself!!!):

(http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/gallows2.jpg)

Edit: I'm not happy about this one. The crowds black heads disappoint me!

I like this one better... and there's even a crowd watching.  One thing though, there's a gap in the buildings to the right methinks, but that shouldn't matter too much.

New draft rules: www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/gallows0_4.pdf (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/gallows0_4.pdf)

Modified tile:
(http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/images/gallows3.jpg)

I like the spectators on the tile.  Perhaps you could make it available to Scott for his Archery tile...

This is now finished.

The rules are here:
The Gallows v1 (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/Gallows.zip)

or they can be downloaded as part of The Medieval Expansion
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=511.0 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=511.0)

Edit: Link modified

Hmmm... no zip file for The Gallows with its own tile?

Good point :)

The Gallows (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/Gallows.zip)