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Title: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 05, 2008, 12:27:47 pm The background to this thread is from the Request for new tiles (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=285.0) thread. Basically the idea is from Scott, the tiles are made by me.
I'm trying to PDF the files so that they will print out in the actual size irrespective of whatever machine/program/printer is used to print them... I think this works, but it is based on A4 paper size. First page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest01.pdf), featuring dead-ends Second page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest02.pdf), featuring through roads Third page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest03.pdf), featuring tower bases and a roundabout! Fourth page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest04.pdf), featuring cloisters and shrines Fifth page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest05.pdf), featuring cities Sixth page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest06.pdf), featuring forest connectors and the pig farm Seventh page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest07.pdf), featuring road and city pieces Eighth page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest08.pdf), featuring more road and city pieces Nineth page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest09.pdf), featuring dual-sided city pieces Further tiles coming up soon! Thumbnails below (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest01tn.jpg) (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest02tn.jpg) (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest03tn.jpg) (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest04tn.jpg) (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest05tn.jpg) (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest06tn.jpg) (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest07tn.jpg) (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest08tn.jpg) (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest09tn.jpg) Title: Re: Forests Post by: Joff on October 05, 2008, 12:43:48 pm Have we a variant using these as yet? If not, i'll get thinking!
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Joff on October 05, 2008, 02:04:33 pm Woodman's Cottage
When a Woodman's Cottage is drawn from the supply (that is a forest tile, that has a road on it, ending in a cottage) a player may place a follower on the cottage. At game end, a player that has a Woodman claims 5 points for every tile that makes up the forest. The forest does not have to be complete but it must follow the usual rules of connection (i.e. adjacent edges must match). Should another player place a Woodman the forest is scored by majority occupier (same as cities, except for the 5 point per tile). However, unlike cities a player may place a Woodman directly in a forest where there is already an occupier. Just some preliminary thoughts, perhaps the 5 point per tile is a bit high? Suggestions? Title: Re: Forests Post by: Gantry on October 05, 2008, 04:23:16 pm Woodman's Cottage When a Woodman's Cottage is drawn from the supply (that is a forest tile, that has a road on it, ending in a cottage) a player may place a follower on the cottage. At game end, a player that has a Woodman claims 5 points for every tile that makes up the forest. The forest does not have to be complete but it must follow the usual rules of connection (i.e. adjacent edges must match). Should another player place a Woodman the forest is scored by majority occupier (same as cities, except for the 5 point per tile). However, unlike cities a player may place a Woodman directly in a forest where there is already an occupier. Just some preliminary thoughts, perhaps the 5 point per tile is a bit high? Suggestions? If I'm reading this correctly, when you place a woodman's cottage you can place a follower on the cottage. Then you say: Quote However, unlike cities a player may place a Woodman directly in a forest where there is already an occupier. When does this occur? Only when drawing a woodman's cottage, or at anytime after drawing any tile? Five points per tile is a bit steep, however, think about this: if the forest (at least 1 forest tile in the forest) is adjacent to a river, it is a higher value (5 pts/tile or perhaps 3 pts/tile). If the forest is not adjacent to a river, it is worth only 2 points per tile. What this rule does is, like farmers, encourage you to commit a meeple (woodman) early on in the game right after placing a river. That way, the farther along the game goes on, the less chance there is of making a killer high-point move as forests naturally move away from the river. Not sure if I'm being clear about this concept. There's nothing worse than playing really well for 40 minutes, only to have your opponent pull a great tile and win the game. Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 05, 2008, 05:46:28 pm When I originally thought of forests, I was thinking they would be scored more like cities, except 1 point per tile. I was also thinking of a trade good with a picture of a log. A meeple placed on the forest is a lumberjack. We could possibly have a logging camp tile to double the points of the forest. I was also originally thinking of a cloister tile in the middle of a forest clearing, though that was before shrines came out; we could instead or additionally have a shrine in the middle of a forest (the worshippers of Woden met in the forest).
Another idea brewing in my head is to combine forests with gold mines, since this is going to be a fairly big expansion anyway. Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 05, 2008, 06:11:48 pm I like Scott's idea better. Keep in mind that at the end of the day we will probably run over 100 forest tiles.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 05, 2008, 11:13:57 pm Updated the top post with the second page... here are the links for your convienence:
Second page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest02.pdf) Gantry, if you could make this available for download, it'd be much appreciated. Thumbnail (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest02tn.jpg) Edit: As you can tell, I'm working with roads, forests and farms at the moment. Cities and rivers and all the other icons will be added in the future. Next up, roundabouts, 2 roads at right angles and junctions. Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 06, 2008, 08:59:18 am Those look awesome. Keep it up! :)
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 06, 2008, 08:59:38 am Updated the top post with the third page... here are the links for your convienence:
Third page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest03.pdf) Gantry, if you could make this available for download, it'd be much appreciated. Thumbnail (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest03tn.jpg) Next up is shrines and cloisters (6 cloisters, 8 shrines, 1 with both! - i.e. no shrine or cloister can be placed next to the tile with both!). The current plan is: volcanoes & dragon magic portal & princess river & inns & pig farm cities Edit: Gold mines will fit in there somewhere :) Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 06, 2008, 09:01:26 am The tower foundation in the middle of the forest is very spooky. I like how the trees have grown right up to the side of it as if it has been there for a very long time.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 06, 2008, 09:07:58 am The tower foundation in the middle of the forest is very spooky. I like how the trees have grown right up to the side of it as if it has been there for a very long time. Thanks. I like it that way too. It was a pain to make, that much I can tell you.I just realised that with the 3 pages of tiles, it's the largest Carc expansion ever (only the original has more tiles!), and I'm not even halfway done with the expansion yet! Whee! I'm not a big fan of P&D (and I haven't even played it yet, eventhough I've the expansion), so do anyone have any suggestions how many of the volcanoes/dragon/magic portal & princess icons I should make? I'm limiting the icon stuff to a minimum of 4 and a maximum of 8 so that we don't get overkill with the number of tiles. Suggestions welcome! Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 06, 2008, 09:36:04 am I'm not getting any tremendous inspirations for forest-related P&D tiles, so I would say tend towards fewer of them:
Here's a very rough draft of the rules for forests and gold mines: Quote Forests and Gold Mines Extra Pieces * ? new land tiles (showing forest segments as well as familiar features such as cities, cloisters, roads and farms) Additional Rules 1. Place a tile The new land tiles are placed in the usual way. 2. Deploy a follower When the player has placed a tile with a forest segment, he or she may deploy a follower to the forest segment as a lumberjack. There must be no other followers (not even one belonging to the same player) on the forest segments connected to the tile just placed. It does not matter how far away the follower is. When the player has placed a tile with a gold mine, he or she may deploy a follower to the gold mine as a miner. The player scores 1 point at the beginning of every player's turn until the gold mine is completed. 3. Score completed forests and gold mines A completed forest A forest is completed when it is completely surrounded by farm (i.e. there are no open sides where the forest can be expanded) and there are no gaps within the forest. There is no limit to how many segments a forest may contain. A player who has a lumberjack in a completed forest scores 1 point for every forest segment. If there are several followers in a completed forest, the points are then scored by the player with the most lumberjacks. In the case of a draw, all players involved score the full number of points. If a forest is completed which contains one or more logging camps, then the lumberjack scores 2 points for every forest segment. When a forest containing one or more wood trade symbols is completed, the forest is scored as usual. The player who completed the forest receives one trade counter for each wood trade symbol in the forest. It is irrelevant whether this player had a lumberjack in the forest, or indeed whether there were any lumberjacks in the forest at all. A completed gold mine A gold mine is completed when it is surrounded by eight land tiles. The mine no longer produces gold and the follower is returned to its owner. Final Scoring Scoring incomplete forests For every incomplete forest, the owner scores 1 point for every segment. If the incomplete forest contains one or more logging camps, it scores no points. Scoring incomplete gold mines For every incomplete gold mine, the owner scores 1 point for every missing segment. For example, if a gold mine is only surrounded by 6 tiles, it scores 2 points. Trade counters The player who has the most wood counters scores 10 points. As usual, in the case of a draw all players involved score the full 10 points. Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 06, 2008, 09:53:47 am Quote A forest is completed when it is completely surrounded by farm It may also be surrounded by roads, cities and rivers, well that's the plan anyways...Quote If a forest is completed which contains one or more logging camps, then the lumberjack scores 2 points for every forest segment. I'm leaving these mechanics for the expansion to the Forest expansion :)When a forest containing one or more wood trade symbols is completed, the forest is scored as usual. And I think we should make Gold Mines "expansion" separate from forest. Of course some of the gold mine tiles will have forest and vice versa. The reason for all the above is because there are already 45 tiles to Forest alone, P&D will add 30, I&C about 10, cities another 30. Grand total will be over 100 new forest tiles just for the first pass forest expansion. The numbers will probably increase rather than decrease. I forsee: gold mines adding about 4 forest tiles, rivers adding 15, 4 more for fairs and 7 for outposts. All these will be with their respective expansions instead of with forests proper. Then it's 12 for wood trade and 18 for logging camps for the "expansion to the expansion" aka Lumberjack expansion. 30 tiles will tie it with P&D, the largest official expansion in terms of tiles. Edit: I'm already thinking of a second (small) expansion, similar to King, where there's a Robin Hood type of character, forests going under tunnes and with "gaps" (perhaps streams ending in a lake in the middle, or something) so that the forests are divided into 2 or more areas on a single tile. Title: Re: Forests Post by: Joff on October 06, 2008, 10:58:47 am I know we have a bit of fluidity with the fine details at present, but here is a draft:
http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/forests_goldmines.pdf (http://www.john-warren.co.uk/carcassonne/files/Forests_and_Goldmines.pdf) Edit: Link changed to reflect individual expansion rules Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 06, 2008, 11:08:37 am Nice. It's going to turn out to be a long document though since there's at least 4 expansions all lumped in there.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Joff on October 06, 2008, 11:50:22 am Having read through the rules and pdf'd them, I must admit that I like them better than my effort! lol
This has the makings of a great CC expansion! Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 06, 2008, 01:27:37 pm Heh, when I said rough draft, I had no idea how rough it was! :o
I wasn't originally expecting forests to specifically tie in with every other expansion, but I'm also not opposed to the idea. Difficult for gold mines to remain separate from forest if some gold mine tiles will have forest on them. Perhaps gold mines should be moved over to the second pass forest expansion. Some of the more unusual forest tiles could also be in the second expansion, along with the T&B, P&D, and other expansion related tiles. I'm intrigued by the Robin Hood idea; too bad the game is not set in England. Nothing is set in stone yet. We'll figure everything out eventually. Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 06, 2008, 01:41:30 pm We're developing gold mines independently from forests. Here's the forest rules with the gold mines stuff removed; I marked items which are potentially for the second expansion.
Quote Forests Extra Pieces * ? new land tiles (showing forest segments as well as familiar features such as cities, cloisters, roads and farms) Additional Rules 1. Place a tile The new land tiles are placed in the usual way. 2. Deploy a follower When the player has placed a tile with a forest segment, he or she may deploy a follower to the forest segment as a lumberjack. There must be no other followers (not even one belonging to the same player) on the forest segments connected to the tile just placed. It does not matter how far away the follower is. 3. Score completed forests A forest is completed when it is completely surrounded by farm (i.e. there are no open sides where the forest can be expanded) and there are no gaps within the forest. There is no limit to how many segments a forest may contain. A player who has a lumberjack in a completed forest scores 1 point for every forest segment. If there are several followers in a completed forest, the points are then scored by the player with the most lumberjacks. In the case of a draw, all players involved score the full number of points. [Second forest expansion] If a forest is completed which contains one or more logging camps, then the lumberjack scores 2 points for every forest segment. When a forest containing one or more wood trade symbols is completed, the forest is scored as usual. The player who completed the forest receives one trade counter for each wood trade symbol in the forest. It is irrelevant whether this player had a lumberjack in the forest, or indeed whether there were any lumberjacks in the forest at all. Final Scoring Scoring incomplete forests For every incomplete forest, the owner scores 1 point for every segment. [Second forest expansion] If the incomplete forest contains one or more logging camps, it scores no points. Trade counters [Second forest expansion] The player who has the most wood counters scores 10 points. As usual, in the case of a draw all players involved score the full 10 points. Title: Re: Forests Post by: Gantry on October 06, 2008, 04:44:13 pm I'm a little busy getting ready for an out-of-town trip, so will be getting back to this later this week.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 07, 2008, 08:22:01 am Updated the top post with the fourth page... here are the links for your convienence:
Fourth page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest04.pdf) Gantry, if you could make this available for download, it'd be much appreciated. Thumbnail (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest04tn.jpg) Next up is cities The current revised plan is: river & inns & pig farm volcanoes & dragon magic portal & princess Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 07, 2008, 09:42:44 am Could you perhaps increase the size of the clearing around the tiles with forest on all four edges?
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 07, 2008, 09:43:54 am Could you perhaps increase the size of the clearing around the tiles with forest on all four edges? Then people might interpret that it would be legal to place a farmer there...Title: Re: Forests Post by: Joff on October 07, 2008, 12:20:48 pm Then people might interpret that it would be legal to place a farmer there... Surely, no one would farm where their farmer could not supply cities! :) ??? Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 07, 2008, 03:58:24 pm If you're concerned, we can put a footnote, but like Joff said there's no cities to supply so I don't expect people would bother.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 07, 2008, 06:36:22 pm I'll keep that in mind for the next few lots of tiles. I don't really want to revisit what I've done so far as there's still so much to do...
Edit: I'll revisit these tiles after I've completed cities, inns and pig farms. Just so I know what you'd prefer, is it just for the cloister and shrine tiles only and only those tiles that are completely surrounded by forests? Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 07, 2008, 07:33:05 pm Yes, just the cloister and shrine tiles where the cloister/shrine is completely surrounded by forest. Just those two tiles I still like the tower foundation surrounded by forest.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 07, 2008, 07:42:40 pm OK, will do.
Just FYI, if anyone is interested, I have decided that the P&D and Rivers forest tiles should probably be in a separate expansion especially for those who might not want to play with these. The current working name for that expansion is Forest II aka Robin Hood expansion. Suggestions for a better name and mechanic is welcomed! That won't be the next Forest expansion though. Lumberjacks and Loggers is next :) Either Scott or I will start a separate thread for this when we begin work on it 8) Title: Re: Forests Post by: Joff on October 08, 2008, 04:24:59 am Forest II aka Robin Hood expansion I'm intrigued by the Robin Hood idea; too bad the game is not set in England. Ironically, the Sheriff of Nottingham's castle in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves was set in Carcassonne :) Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 08, 2008, 04:28:31 am Ironically, the Sheriff of Nottingham's castle in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves was set in Carcassonne :) Wow, I learn something new everyday. It's just a working name at the moment... and ditto for Lumberjacks and Loggers. Scott may decide he would like to rename them or something.Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 08, 2008, 09:04:30 am I already decided to rename Lumberjacks and Loggers, but I don't know what yet. Logger is a slang synonym for lumberjack, and the lumberjack was already introduced in the first forest expansion. The name for the second expansion will come from whatever new thing is being introduced.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 08, 2008, 12:15:52 pm How does Carcassonne: Prince of Thieves sound as the name of an expansion? ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 08, 2008, 05:00:38 pm It has a nice ring to it, but I'm a little concerned about differentiating it from Robber Baron. People need to "get" the difference.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 08, 2008, 09:26:27 pm Two more pages of forest tiles!
Fifth page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest05.pdf), featuring city pieces Sixth page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest06.pdf), featuring forest connectors and the pig farm Thumbnails: (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest05tn.jpg) (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest06tn.jpg) I was playing around with the forests for the cities and realised I haven't included a few configurations with roads, so I'm adding those first before I continue and complete castles. Total count, 15 tiles per page, 6 pages = 90 tiles for the expansion so far. Whee! Next up: finish off roads and cities The current revised plan is: river & inns Then it's logging camp and trade goods for Forests 2 Followed by volcanoes & dragon magic portal & princess fair grounds for Forest 3 And then the Forest 4 aka "Robin Hood" expansion with the "forest person" and some weird tiles - i.e. tunnels & bridges (much like King) Title: Re: Forests Post by: wellidesigns on October 09, 2008, 06:28:36 am gorgeous add-on
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 09, 2008, 06:33:05 am Thanks. I think I'll end the original base forest expansion after 8 pages of tiles (the last 2 pages will deal with cities and roads) because I need a break from forest :)
Also, I think I'll incorporate shields on cities into "Robin Hood". Rivers and Inns will either be its own expansion ( :o a fifth forest expansion?) or merged into the P&D expansion. We shall see... Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 09, 2008, 09:52:26 am I'm having trouble opening forests06.pdf; says the file is damaged and cannot be repaired.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 09, 2008, 10:38:06 am Sorry about that. Fixed BTW! Lemme know if you still have problems opening it.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 09, 2008, 12:21:51 pm Works good now. Thanks!
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 10, 2008, 12:34:18 am Seventh page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest07.pdf), featuring road and city pieces
Thumbnails: (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest07tn.jpg) Next up: finish off last page (hopefully) roads and cities! Followed by Forest 2 aka "Green Dragon" which will have inns and shields on cities. Then it's logging camp and trade goods for Forests 3 aka "Forest Gump". And then the Forest 4 aka "Robin Hood" expansion with the "Robin Hood rip-off" and some weird tiles - i.e. tunnels & bridges (much like King) Followed by, for Forest 5 aka "Whispering Woods": volcanoes & dragon magic portal & princess fair grounds Title: Re: Forests Post by: wellidesigns on October 10, 2008, 03:04:58 am these look fabulous,; but they print out too small.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 10, 2008, 03:08:51 am Please make sure they are printed at 100% and not autofit to margins or whatever it is as that will print them at 96%
Title: Re: Forests Post by: wellidesigns on October 10, 2008, 03:15:17 am okay, thanks for the tip. off to reprint:-)
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 10, 2008, 03:43:13 am Please let me know if they still print out smaller... obviously I can't test it for every printer out there :(
Title: Re: Forests Post by: wellidesigns on October 10, 2008, 03:49:20 am they printed out just fine right now. Now I'm gonna assemble seome tiles.
Just wish I could get them printed on cardboard, and didn't have to do all this work myself ;-) ( I have a HP deskjet980 CXI ) Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 10, 2008, 10:40:24 am I'm a little concerned about these roads ending in a house. I think there are going to be debates about whether certain tiles have one continuous farm or not.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 10, 2008, 10:48:42 am I'm a little concerned about these roads ending in a house. I think there are going to be debates about whether certain tiles have one continuous farm or not. The answer is not. But I think the rules document will need to spell out the tiles where this is ambiguous. We are working on that next week right?Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 10, 2008, 11:44:40 am Yes, I will make v0.1 of the Word document either this afternoon or sometime tomorrow and e-mail it to you (with the fonts this time).
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 11, 2008, 12:22:16 am Eighth page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest08.pdf), featuring more road and city pieces
Nineth page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest09.pdf), featuring dual-sided city pieces Thumbnails: (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest08tn.jpg) (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest09tn.jpg) Next up: finish off last page (hopefully) roads and cities, and fix cloister and shrine places. I know this was supposed to be the last page, but I realised while doing it that there is a difference between a road and a road that lead to a city thanks to the wagons. So suddenly, the scope ballooned to what it is now. One more page to go. Hopefully it'll be the last page for this expansion. Next is Forest 2 aka "Green Dragon" which will have inns and shields on cities, but I will be working on something other the forest for the next couple of weeks. Followed by logging camp and trade goods for Forests 3 aka "Forest Gump". And then it's Forest 4 aka "Robin Hood" expansion with the "Robin Hood rip-off" and some weird tiles - i.e. tunnels & bridges (much like King) Followed by, for Forest 5 aka "Whispering Woods": volcanoes & dragon magic portal & princess fair grounds NB. Names in quotation marks are my working names, not final names. Scott will be the one to decide the final names. Title: Re: Forests Post by: Joff on October 11, 2008, 01:53:28 am I do like the names Green Dragon and Whispering Woods!
Title: Re: Forests Post by: wellidesigns on October 11, 2008, 03:32:06 am I really need a larger table to play my Carcassonne with this forest expansion.
So far I made 36 tiles of them and we used them in the game. A great addition !! Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 11, 2008, 09:45:44 am Tenth page, forest tiles (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest10.pdf), featuring even more road and city pieces
Thumbnail: (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest10tn.jpg) That's all for the first forest release. There are 9 more tiles which I'll probably move to "Robin Hood" or "Green Dragon". BTW, I also fixed the shrines and cloisters page (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forest04.pdf) as requested by Scott. And I'm gonna take a week off making forest tiles to do something else {wv Edit: I do like the names Green Dragon and Whispering Woods! I never knew you were a Tolkien & Filmation Fan. Green Dragon is of course, the Inn in Hobbiton, Middle Earth and Whispering Woods is where She-Ra and her rebels hide out while fighting the evil Horde on Etheria.Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 11, 2008, 10:18:50 am I like the name Whispering Woods too, and I never watched She-Ra. Green Dragon is not a bad name on its own, but I think would confuse some people because it has nothing to do with actual dragons.
I have to be honest: there's some basic configurations that haven't be made yet, and quite a few non-basic configurations. Not to say that the non-basic onfigurations aren't good, because they are very nice, but part of me is wondering if it would be better to move (some of) those non-basic configurations to a future forest expansion to make room for the remaining basic configurations. I suspect that would be a giant pain, so I'm not going to force the issue. The reason I bring it up is because I have this nagging feeling that there might be tile placement problems because the selection of forest tiles is possibly not balanced? Then again, I could be wrong and everything might be fine. We'll know for sure after more people are play-testing. Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 11, 2008, 10:29:58 am Green Dragon is not a bad name on its own, but I think would confuse some people because it has nothing to do with actual dragons. I thought about that. Depending on how things goes, maybe I'll put in the dragon icon tiles from P&D into this expansion as well so as not to confuse people. Who knows? I don't. I'm taking my 1 week forest break which started after I posted the last of the tiles {wvI have to be honest: there's some basic configurations that haven't be made yet Yes I know. As I said in my previous post, they will be in future expansions.part of me is wondering if it would be better to move (some of) those non-basic configurations to a future forest expansion to make room for the remaining basic configurations. I suspect that would be a giant pain, so I'm not going to force the issue. Yeah, it'll be a pain. Just out of curiosity, what are the basic configurations that you have in mind?The reason I bring it up is because I have this nagging feeling that there might be tile placement problems because the selection of forest tiles is possibly not balanced? Then again, I could be wrong and everything might be fine. We'll know for sure after more people are play-testing. Well, we can always go back and tweak it (pain, pain, pain) if we really really need to, but somehow I doubt it. People (like wellisdesign) are gonna start using a select few tiles instead of the 150 that is currently available. (152 if you add the 2 from gold mines). That 150 tiles alone makes this expansion the biggest one when compared against all the other offcial ones (the original Carc only had 72 playable tiles, so we are more than double this!), and we have barely scratched the surface of what is possible. I'll definately look forward to the feedback from the playtesters!Note: All the official expansions added together equal about 220, so if the current 10 sheets were used with all the official expansions, every other tile would be a forest tile... Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 11, 2008, 10:32:55 am One configuration that comes to mind is a city end-cap across the street from a forest end-cap.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 11, 2008, 10:34:31 am One configuration that comes to mind is a city end-cap across the street from a forest end-cap. See 9th page, 2nd row, 2nd columnTitle: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 12, 2008, 10:29:03 am Very draft game rules (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/forestrules.03.pdf)! Comments welcome. Scott, I've sent the orginal back to you.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 13, 2008, 10:43:50 am Scott, I have no idea if you have updated the rules. Here's the FAQ
FAQ: Quote Q: What followers can I place on a forest tile? You may place either the regular follower, the big follower, the wagon or the builder on the forest. You cannot place the mayor, the barn, or the pig on a forest. Q: How does the wagon work with a forest? The wagon counts as a follower when deployed to a forest. When the forest is completed, the wagon may be returned to the player's supply or moved to an uncompleted adjacent road. Q: Can the wagon move to a forest? Yes, provided that the forest is uncompleted and unoccupied, and that the road the wagon is moving from is connected to the forest. Q: How does the big follower work with a forest? The big follower is played to a forest like any follower. When a forest is completed, if more than one player has followers in the forest, then the big follower counts as two followers for scoring purposes. Q: How does the builder work with a forest? The builder can only be placed in a forest that has one of your followers in that forest. On subsequent turns, if a tile is played that extends or completes the forest, the player may extend his turn by taking a second tile from the pile and playing it. Q: Can a follower on a forest be captured by a tower or removed by the dragon? Yes, provided that it complies with the rules for the tower or the dragon. Q: Can I move a follower from the city of Carcassonne to a forest? No. Q: Can I use the magic portal to place a follower on a forest? Yes, provided it complies with the magic portal rules. Q: How many points do you score a turn if the fairy is next to a follower on a forest? The owner of the follower gets one point at the beginning of the turn for the fairy according to the fairy rules. Q: Can the abbey be placed next to a forest? Yes, provided that it complies with the rules for the abbey. Q: Do I have to use all the 150 forest tiles in my game? No, you may pick and choose the forest tiles that you would like to use in your game. However, we would suggest playing with them all. Q: How can I tell if a farm is separated into two by the trees in the middle of the tile? Where it exists, the trees with the house in the centre of a tile, usually separates the farms, unless otherwise noted here in the rules. Q: If another player has played the tile with the shrine and cloister and have place a follower on either of the features, can I use the magic portal to place a follower to the other feature and start a challenge? You may place a follower to the other feature, but this will not start a challenge. When the shrine/cloister is completed, you both get 9 points for the respective shrine/cloister. Q: If my farm has 2 pig farms, and I have the majority how is it scored? The farm is scored as if it has only one pig farm. Multiple pig farms do not increase the pig farm bonus just as multiple inns on a road do not increase the inn bonus. Q. How about if I have a pig farm and a pig on the farm and I have the majority? The pig and the pig farm are two separate items each of which gives a +1 bonus for cities. In this case, you get a +2 bonus for your farmers. Q. Can I place a farmer on a tile with a farm that is surrounded by forest and cities on all four sides of the tile? No. If the farm is not connected to the edge of the tile that it is shown, it is not a farm. Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 13, 2008, 01:04:16 pm Haven't gotten around to it yet, but I will soon.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 13, 2008, 07:30:20 pm Please let me know if there are any other tiles that needs clarification...
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 15, 2008, 10:57:05 am Here is v0.5 of the rules, with footnotes added:
http://www.mediafire.com/?zyz2taoyfhc (http://www.mediafire.com/?zyz2taoyfhc) I decided to disallow the builder in the forest because it doesn't make sense - nothing is being built. Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 15, 2008, 10:59:46 am I decided to disallow the builder in the forest because it doesn't make sense - nothing is being built. That makes sense :) Perhaps we could have a "lavendar" tile to extend the builder mechanic to forests...Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 15, 2008, 11:04:20 am On a somewhat related note, I was doing some reading about Robin Hood in connection with the third forest expansion which is currently under the working title "Merry Men" (we'll probably keep that name). The English Robin Hood originated from the French Robin des Bois (which translates to Robin of the Wood, or in Middle English "Robin Whode"). Read more here: http://www.textbookleague.org/94robin.htm (http://www.textbookleague.org/94robin.htm)
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 15, 2008, 11:07:25 am That's one of the possible origins :) I think there were a group of such people all over Europe during those times...
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on October 17, 2008, 01:06:31 am Scott, if there are no further comments to the forest tiles and rules, can you create a 1.0 version of the rules and a zip file containing all the files and make that available please? Then we can stick a fork in this and call it done! {wv
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 18, 2008, 11:21:22 am Will do.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on October 18, 2008, 01:24:02 pm Done:
http://www.mediafire.com/?zjmz2hdmgm3 (http://www.mediafire.com/?zjmz2hdmgm3) Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on November 09, 2008, 10:01:49 am Scott, the 1.0 rules state that forests are worth 1 point for every segment. Shouldn't that be 1 point for every tile instead? If it is, could you update the rules and post the updated version please? Thanks.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on November 09, 2008, 07:39:20 pm I was staying consistent with the existing landscape features, and according to the CAR cities and roads are scored per segment. I notice there is a picture in the rules clarifying that segments on the same tile are counted as one. Do I still need to change the wording?
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on November 09, 2008, 08:10:39 pm I was staying consistent with the existing landscape features, and according to the CAR cities and roads are scored per segment. I notice there is a picture in the rules clarifying that segments on the same tile are counted as one. Do I still need to change the wording? Well, perhaps you may want to add a footnote that 2 or more segments on a tile still counts as 1?Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on November 10, 2008, 10:15:38 am Don't you think people are already familiar enough with the concept?
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on November 10, 2008, 05:32:03 pm I think they are, but the rules seem to state otherwise. i.e. 1 point per segment. I think at the very least a footnote is required so that it is clear and not ambiguous.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on November 10, 2008, 05:39:04 pm Meh, something is seriously wrong with my computer. MS Word refuses to recognize the Barbedor fonts anymore. ???
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on November 10, 2008, 06:55:40 pm Ouch! Welcome to my world! The way I fixed it was to highlight the text and then reselect the Barbedor fonts again. I have no idea if that will work for you.
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Scott on November 11, 2008, 09:53:51 am The fonts aren't even showing up as an option. When I try to reinstall them, Windows claims that the fonts are corrupted, even the originals. I have a sneaky suspicion is has something to do with an update to Acrobat that might have some problems with it. (Every time I restart the computer, it claims that I need to restart again.)
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on January 17, 2009, 07:31:23 am Anyways, I updated the rules a while back to include comments by koolkat and wicke (Thanks guys!). The zip file with the public downloads has been updated, but because that is such a big file, the rules only document can be downloaded from here (2.27MB) (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/carc/expansions/forestrules11.pdf).
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Wishmaster on January 17, 2009, 12:22:50 pm the rules only document can be downloaded from here (2.27MB) (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/carc/expansions/forests11.pdf). Link is broken. Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on January 17, 2009, 09:11:33 pm Fixed previous link! Thanks wishmaster
Title: Re: Forests and Count Post by: skipboris on February 04, 2009, 02:51:25 pm Sorry if this has been brought up, but has anyone edited any Count tiles to include a forest area?
Title: Re: Forests Post by: Novelty on February 04, 2009, 06:36:20 pm You could edit one to include a forest area if you wish to play with your own house rules. IIRC, the current Forest rules state that no followers from the CoC could be parachuted into the forest. My preferred variant would be to use the market to parachute followers into forests, since that is where the woodsman will be selling their forest produce.
skipboris, sent you a PM as well. Title: Re: Forests Post by: meepleater on February 05, 2009, 02:58:27 am Sorry if this has been brought up, but has anyone edited any Count tiles to include a forest area? Yes, I have for anyone interested pm me and I'll e-mail it. It also has a sector for rivers, however, since the rules of forests and fishermen state that no-one from carcassonne can be moved into either of those features, it would be a variant... Title: Forest Roads Post by: ShadowP68 on January 11, 2011, 08:46:42 pm I have been working on creating the forest expansion and noticed that the roads do not go thru the forest. I then looked thru the other expansion and didn't find any there either. So would it be worth it to have tiles made up with the roads running thru the forest?
Title: Re: Forest Roads Post by: Talisinbear on January 12, 2011, 12:17:44 am It would make sense to me
My question is why the forest addition is so large though to start with? Title: Re: Forest Roads Post by: CKorfmann on January 12, 2011, 01:37:30 pm I think Novelty used an approximate number based on the number of city tiles available in all expansions at the time he created it (at least with the forest base by iteself). I think it also had something to do with the configurations he wanted. Not sure, but perhaps he'll answer that question.
As for roads going through the forest, I think the questions is whether or not it's your intention for the forest to be continuous on either side or not. Title: Re: Forest Roads Post by: ShadowP68 on January 12, 2011, 06:09:41 pm I was thinking that they would be seperated by the roads.
Title: Re: Forest Roads Post by: Novelty on January 15, 2011, 12:56:33 am I have been working on creating the forest expansion and noticed that the roads do not go thru the forest. I then looked thru the other expansion and didn't find any there either. So would it be worth it to have tiles made up with the roads running thru the forest? It's there, for example:page 2, row 4, column 1, Forest expansion page 6, row 5, column 2, Forest expansion page 7, row 1, column 2, Forest expansion Title: Re: Forest Roads Post by: ShadowP68 on January 15, 2011, 09:54:41 am I seen those, but I was thinking of forest/road, not field/road.
Like this: (http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z368/ShadowP68/ForestRaodExampletile.jpg) Sorry in advance for my terrible tile creation. Title: Re: Forest Roads Post by: Whaleyland on January 15, 2011, 10:35:05 am You realize that that would require an entirely new set of tiles since only forest/roads could match other forest/roads? No other expansion has yet to do such a thing. There are no city/roads in Carcassonne. Roads always end on a field edge. I mean, it can certainly be done, but the odds of completing those types of roads diminishes greatly unless only playing with an expansion that has many forest/roads.
Title: Re: Forest Roads Post by: ShadowP68 on January 15, 2011, 11:49:58 am I realize that it would require another expansion.
I am just wondering if it would be something that people would like to have created. Title: Re: Forest Roads Post by: CKorfmann on January 15, 2011, 12:12:53 pm It seems reasonable to me to have them, assuming someone wants to take the time to create them. I suppose the city/road would also be feasible, though far less likely.
Title: Re: Forest Roads Post by: Talisinbear on January 15, 2011, 01:40:18 pm On a vaguely related topic
Why are there only Walled Cities? I would expect peasant villages in such an environment. Title: Re: Forest Roads Post by: CKorfmann on January 15, 2011, 03:02:11 pm Good idea. Check out the Solazy expansion HERE (http://carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=861.0). He uses that concept, though a bit differently.
Title: Re: Forest Roads Post by: Novelty on January 15, 2011, 08:22:36 pm There are already complaints that there are too many forest tiles. Adding more might make it even worse. Although I suppose if anyone wants to make those, they are welcome to do so.
Title: Re: Forest Roads Post by: Gwommy on January 25, 2011, 12:34:41 am This may be somewhat off-topic, but I was wondering if anyone ever thought about allowing forest and field tiles to be placed next to each other. I guess it would make the forests a bit square, but you'd be able to block farms easier. Not sure how it would affect the scoring of a completed forest.
And the forest/road tile does look good. |