Carcassonne Central

I have no idea if this has been posted before or not.  This variant simply adds a bit of value to king/robber during the game.

Heres the rule: If you have the king tile, you are immune to the effects of the princess tiles.  This is because the princess is your daughter and therefore you have influence over her.  If you have the robber you are immune to Cathars tiles.  This is because your robbers steal from and confuse the would be siegers.  When scoring a city, if you have the robber tile, it negates the cathars effects and you score the city normally. Farmers still score double for the city because they still supply the confused siegers.

While this is just a small tweak to the rules, and the "why" story can definitely be tweaked, if you think about this it could add some really interesting strategy.  For instance, if you were going for king and got sieged, you could wait until you got robber baron before completing.  It gives a cool incentive to go for these bonuses even during play (besides the final count).

Nice idea, but what about those of us who don't have/can't get the Cathars tiles  :'(

Perhaps we could have the robber baron make our thieves on roads immune to the Dragon?

I don't have the Cathar tiles, but I think it's a good idea to be inclusive rather than exclusive

I was waiting for this to be moved to a new thread before I posted :)


This is a great idea. Especially the King tile having immunity from the princess. That's logical.

However, there is a 'fly in the ointment' so to speak in regard to the Robber idea, as has been mentioned. If the King is being played in the P&D expansion for immunity from something, so also should the Robber be able to be used in P&D for something.

This sort of thing from dwhitworth:


The variant would be exclusively for use when playing P&D with King/Robber Baron, but as I have already said, it is a great idea and one that can be definately worked on. Good storyline with the King. Excellent idea skipboris.

As is, it would only be a working variant if you were playing with all expansions, or at least PD, KS, and Cathars.  To me, this is the best, most balanced way to use this variant.  It adds meat to both the KS and Cathars mini expansions.  To give robbers dragon immunity is redundant, considering the fairy.  It would also be overpowered; unbalanced.  The fairy is not very strong protection (1 meeple only) and is easily moved.  Not to mention, theres just no good story to explain that!  :D  But I'm open to other ideas.

To those without Cathars:  It is very easy to craft your own! 

Heres what you need: leftover tiles (I used the HG scout tiles from king & scout), Full sheet(s) label paper, scissors, file or sand paper.

Instructions:
1- Get a digital copy of Cathars, and tile backs.  You can find these at boardgamegeek.com.
2- Print Cathars, and backs on Label paper.  I went to an office store so i could use a laser printer and only buy the sheets I need.
3- Cut and stick to the tiles, both front and back. 
4- I used a file to smooth and round the edges, and to shave off any excess.  Rough sandpaper should probably work.
5- Optional - Print Cathars tuck box on card stock.  Diagram can also be found at boardgamegeek. 

The final product is near perfect Cathar tiles! The only difference is the label paper texture is slightly different from normal tiles.  So if your using the bag, and someone is taking a long time to pull one out, you might have a Cathar hunter on your hands!  Alternatively, if you use the tower dispenser, you should be fine.

I like the King/Princess idea. I'm not sold on the Robber Baron/Cathars idea.

Having the Robber Baron protect meeples from the dragon is probably a little unbalanced. I think that the idea of establishing some link between the robber baron and thieves is a good one though. Need some time to think about this further.

I've made my own Cathars tiles until I can get my hands on the real thing. I also used the label paper method, and it's pretty tough to tell the difference unless you spend a lot of time feeling the tiles. I used a hobby knife instead of scissors, which does a cleaner job.

Heres a few ideas for thieves:

Robber Baron allows you to:

1) Immediately score any thief, even if the road is incomplete - 1 at a time only.  (Nice if you need meeples, or are unlikely to finish the road)
or
2) Thieves only are immune to dragon.  (less powerful because it only saves thieves, and encourages player to be a thieving player)
or
3) Thieves score an extra point per tile (but I don't really like this one).
or
4) instead of placing any wood, you may remove another players thief and return it to their stock. You essentially bully out the competition.  (could be too powerful, but fun.  Maybe the fairy protects against this?  or the king?)

about the robber baron / thief on road, maybe give the follower a +2 (i.e. small =3 and big sollower =4) against the other meeples who try to combine/steal the road im process... if the +2 thing is too heavy, maybe just give a +1.

the idea about the King / princess is fizzled is completely AMAZING!!!

groovy!!

If you have the Robber Baron and someone tries to join your road you win all ties. That way if someone manages to get 2 meeples or a large meeple on the same road as you they are rewarded for their thievery.

Some story for you:

Since the Robber Baron is the leader of the thieves guild other thieves are required to defer to his underlings. However since they're thieves and not exactly law abiding they sometimes use brute force to overpower the Baron's thieves.

The story and the winning of ties for the baron hangs together but still does not meet Joff's point about the advantages both being related to the same expansion.

One idea may be that if you are playing the Tower, then with the King your Knights are immune to being taken prisoner and with the Baron your thieves are immune. Or if you are playing A&M then King allows a mayor in a non-pennant city to count one toward majority and the Baron allows a wagon to move across one empty completed road after completing a feature. With P&D it is more difficult to balance options.

Maybe the easiest is to allow the King to add two points to a completed city and the Baron to add a point to a road. At least that approach is expansion-independent.

I think one of the great things about this game is how it allows for these kinds of house rules/variants to be developed easily and to have a good likelihood of being effective in game play.

I like the baron winning all ties.  That does make the card more interesting.  Heres another idea to throw in: Robber baron acts like a free builder on his longest road.  This would definitely add some added value to the card, and increase the strategy.  This could mean some interesting early strategies as people try to "secure" the baron.  I for one, think both effects would make a well rounded variant.  So, rough draft #2:

1) The holder of the king tile is immune to the effects of the princess tiles.  The king is the princesses father and therefore has influence over her.

2) The power and influence of the robber baron allows the tile holder to a) win all ties when calculating the majority on roads, and b) act as if his longest road has a builder.

The requirement for this variant is simply the P&D expansion. 

how does it look now?

Wait never mind that one needs the builder rules

Another idea to throw out there:

Robber baron resides on the longest road in Carcassonne.  His master thieves on this road steal extra from surrounding farmers and cities.  (this may or may not need balancing)

Rule: All cities connected to the longest road score 1 less point per tile upon scoring.  Robber baron may choose not to enforce this.  Farmers do not count tiles containing the longest road.  RB may choose not to enforce this.

Or, another version of this: Robber Baron steals 1 point from all cities connected to the longest road upon scoring.  RB steals 1 point per farm tile when connecting farm is scored.

Both versions only apply to the longest road.  With this, you get a cathar flavor, without actually having the expansion.  You only need P&D for the king part.

All of those sound interesting.

Sorry to say I am not keen on any of Boris' ideas. They are not bad ideas, they just don't pique my interest.

It's a work in progress.

One more idea for robber Baron; Owner of this tile can "steal the fairy."  Player simply pays 2 victory points and steals the fairy.  This action is in addition to the regular "move the wood."

Example:  you draw a cloister and want to put a meeple on it.  BUT, your largest city is threatened by the dragon.  You could claim the cloister with a meeple, AND pay 2 VP to move the fairy. 

This variant along with the well liked king idea would only effect KS and PD, as requested.

thoughts?

...I like it!

It fulfills the wish that the robber baron have some sort of connection to P&D just like the king is connected to the princess. The mechanic of kidnapping the fairy makes sense for the robber baron. Some playtesting might be good to see if the 2 point penalty is good.

dwhitworth's expansion-independant bonus points for feature completion can still be played as a separate variant/house rule.

My vote goes to Boris' latest idea for the winner of the robber baron portion of this variant in progress.

really not bad!! not bad at all!!!

Cool....now to playtest.  I suspect that stealing the fairy won't happen very often.  It just doesn't happen that often that you want to place and move the fairy.  Anyways, we'll see.

That gives a reasonably logical function to the robber baron, just like the king. This has great potential :)

Count me in as well, I like it and will play test it . . . . as soon as we get back home to the carc box . . . in the meantime the Castle is keeping us challenged while on the road.

Ok gents once you have all play tested it and ironed out the bugs dont forget to add it to the variant registry please.

there isn't a public input form yet, i wanted 2 of us at least to be familiar with how it works before we let it loose on the public.  have you had a chance to sign up for an account on zoho yet?

we playtest the Baron/King variant, the fairy rules LOOKS to be really too powerful if we can take it over "anytime". but when we play to play a meeple & buy back the fairy, it does not paypack often...

the king who gives the protection of a princess kickass(only once in 2 games)!!!

maybe we can give a little push to the king, the princess + som'thin'!?!?

On the robber variant: It was intended that the fairy could me moved only during the "move the wood" phase, not anytime.  The intention of this entire varient was to give value to king/robber during play, not at the end.  Since the king/princess variant isn't all that powerful (because it doesn't happen that much), the robber variant also shouldn't be that powerful.  The intended effect is simply to add a bit of flavor and use for king/robber.  If robber is still too powerful you can make the thief fee 3 VP.

it should help, for sure!

we'll try this, but the 2nd game was only on OUR turn, not "anytime' and it was DEVASTATING... look, we close a castle/road, 3/4/5 points whatever... we claim the feature with a meeple, pau 2 VP to steal the fairy... the fairy gives +1 as that, plus teh bonus of the feature closed!! it IS good, but a little too gooooood!!!

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you get the fairy VP only if you have her at the start of your turn, before move the wood.  If you moved her normally, or stole her using the robber, the opportunity for the VP is gone. Since you can only steal her on your own turn, as a bonus move the wood, the "1vp for fairy rule" shouldn't affect this mechanic.

@skipboris: here we can pay 2 VP to steal the fairy, so i can draw a cloister in a hole(so the Cloister can be scored on the spot), deploy a meeple AND pay 2 VP to steal the fairy. then i complete the Cloister, WITH the fairy on, the Cloister gives me 9 points + 3 points for the fairy. In this case the fairy has been stolen in the move the wood part.

this is THAT point that may be too powerful for that variant.

So, May i suggest that the "steal fairy" thing can be only used at the very end of the turn before another player draw another tile...  then all features will be scored, the dragon will have aleready move(if the case is...) the princess already kick an poor ass out of a city, the tower may capture a scapegoat, and every "goods" are now picked up.  THIS is reducing power from the variant.

any thought??

The reason you score a cloister immediately when filling a hole is because cloisters are scored when fully surrounded.  You still have to pay the meeple price to claim the cloister and 9 points.  Technically, you are playing a meeple to collect the cloister, and immediately pick it up.  If you were out of meeples, and placed a hole-filling-cloister, you would get zero points because you could not claim it.  In other words, it is illegal to do what you just said.  You would be placing 2 meeples and moving the fairy.  Does that make sense?  Please corect me if I'm wrong.

in fact, i just deploy ONE meeple and pay 2 VP to steal the fairy... to payback 12 on the cloister...

the cloister like ALL OTHERS features are scored a the end of the turn... not anyother time.

OK I see what you are saying.  To fix, one could simply add the following stipulation: If you steal the fairy you will not get the feature completion bonus, or, as you said, if you want to steal the fairy you may only do so at the end of your turn, or, it costs 3 vp to steal...The steal the fairy ability was only intended to give you an extra option for protecting yourself against the dragon.  It is not intended to be used as a scoring gimmick.  Which of those 3 options seems the best to you?

i playtest yesterday( 5-0 Mtl vs Boston!!!!!!) and it is more efficient, and unbalancing... we din't have to steal the fairy every turn, so liek the king variant, the robber baron variant(steal fairy) is OK @ 3 VP / at the very very end of the turn.

p.s. that way if we draw a tile that makes move the dragon, the player CANNOT pays 3 VP to protect himself! less P***ing off the others players.

so that way, king + robber baron (Variant), i like it VERY much!!

all I can say is... go habs!