Carcassonne Central

With the advent of two new sets of tiles in the near future we got to talking over the game tonight about new tiles we would like to see in the game. Not tiles with new properties (like Abbeys, Cathars, etc) but just tile configurations that are not represented in the sets so far.

I wondered what members of this forum would like to see if you were designing these new sets. What tiles would help the game - or just annoy your opponent sometime.

I will start the list with a request for a tile like the single straight road that ends in two small houses in the centre of the tile so that it ends both road segments and does NOT cut the farm in half.

(http://members.shaw.ca/carcassonne/Tile-1.jpg)

Any other ideas?

(I ought to offer a prize for anyone who comes up with something Jay actually produces  ;D )

My river tiles perhaps?

(http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/rivers3.jpg)

I started a line of thinking about tiles one day around Christmas, but never really pursued the thought because at the time it seemed unworkable, overly complex, or totally useless.  I only mention it now in case one of you geniuses can rework one of the ideas into something fruitful.

I thought that instead of thinking about possibilities of features on a simple square tile, with 1 feature per side (the tile "universe", if you will), consider changing the universe.

You can change 4 things: (1) change the number of sides of the tiles, (2) change the number of features per side, and (3) change the scale of the tiles.  Finally, (4) if you count making the game surface 3D instead of 2D.  This isn't really workable, although you could introduce tile stacking but that would become far too complex.

If you change the number of sides to the tiles, the only thing I can think of that might work would be to cut the tiles in half diagonally, that is to make triangle-shaped tiles with 3 sides.  The only thing this would accomplish though would be to make it much tougher to match pieces, and I see no real advantage to these half-tiles.

If you change the number of features per side, one method might be to double the size to 1x2 (length x width) making it longer so that you have 1 feature on each end an 2 features along each of the longer sides.  This change wouldn't really add much possibility, but it would be easier than triangular tiles to match up.  Useless, since I can't see how the combinations of features in the joined area would make any difference at all, since it's the joined sides that really make placement interesting.

If you change the scale of the tiles, you could either double the tile size length & width dimensions, which would make a situation similar to the above.  Alternatively halving tile size wouldn't work because then it would bisect rivers and roads, but thirds might work, since the middle would match up with roads, but what good would the outside 2 thirds be? Useless.

So there you go, a gaggle of useless ideas. It's late, I'm bored but not sleepy, forgive my rants
 :-X

I thought the three-way road tile was nice, but I don't see how you could duplicate that effect…

So, here's my suggestions for new tiles. I don't know if they fit the criteria, but…

- a replacement tile for The Count which has the has a river leading away from the city. Kind of like the normal city/lake tile. I think the 'either Count or River' idea is rubbish, and this tile would solve it.

- my other suggestion are similar actually. I'd like an expansion which precisiely didn't avoid all the other expansions, but actually used elements from all of them in new combinations. So I want a shrine with a dragon symbol it. A Cathar tile with a tower foundation. Instead of the usual 'independent' status—you can play this expansion with the basic game or any expansion—I want one that can only be played in combination with other expansions. To expand the expansions, so to speak. Something for the fans.

Hmmm I wonder how much some tiles like this might change a game. I'd throw them in as a separate set of tiles. Possibly with some modification on the rules that creates a minor penalty for choosing the double length tile. Could lead to some interesting maps.

With regards to Gantry's post, I can't personally think of any advantages to doing stuff like that. Might be more trouble than it's worth? Even the Count was divided into twelve tiles instead of being a 4x3 single tile.

As for tiles that could be produced, there are some opportunities for small modifications to existing tiles to create "new" ones. Remove a trade good, add a shield, remove a shield, etc.

Then you get into combining features, like what Novelty has done. Lots of potential there too.

I'd like to see some new landscape features added, like forests and mountains.

They are quite good :)

Just one question... are the small houses next to the lake and spring 'inns'? lol ;)  ;D  ;l7

Just my poor attempt at humour.

When we play the Count we place the city/lake tile against one of the city segments just outside Carcassonne and use that as a starting point for the river. Nobody scores the small city created, but it counts for the farm.

Purists who might object to a lake as a source of a river should think of the Nile. Or better still think that in a medieval city there would be a steam passing through that would have  been co-opted as a sewer - this lake is the sewer outlet. :) It flows to the junction and then joins the river that is flowing "normally" from spring to lake.

Two of Novelty's river tiles could be used in the same way . . .

That's what a lot of the 'new' and 'never seen before' tiles from GQ11 were… and we all know how popular that was ;)

That's a good solution, but it doesn't stop the fact that the two expansions should not be combined under the current official rules. Having a single 'mixed' tile would legitimise the combination.

I'm just too much of a mega-Carc freak  ;D

I'd like tiles with naked women on them, but part from that ..

How about a tile that you can place to connect two cloisters with eachother - like an underground passage (these were common and is in no way out of "character" for a game like this), and thus score some bonus for when you build around two cloisters instead of one? We all know that we usually end up grouping them togheter anyway. These tiles could be placed anywhere (have any motif) since the tunnel runs under ground!

Tunnels could be used for all sorts of things: meeples could hide there and not be eaten by the dragon, one could set up a trap for other people's wagons etc. Or you could use them for black markets to steal goods from cities not your own. Lots of ideas right there and then.

Yepp, tunnels it is.

I agree that tunnels were common in those days, but hard to represent well in a 2D game. Fancy tunnel tiles could potentially cause issues with surrounding features I think.

Poking around the Carcassonne article on Wikipedia for some inspiration, and I'm now wondering: where are the castles/chateaus?

Hard to represent? Nah. Either draw them out or represent them with lids. Or by external marks of some sort; tiles or markers or anything. If you don't use the tunnel it will still not be in the way of anything, it'll just be an underground cave or something ... hmm.. guano farm?

A second cloister placed within X distance of a first is automatically assumed to have a tunnel?

see, 3D representation in a 2D universe....!

Not a bad idea, but I'd like to be able to cause more mischief than that  ;)

I've thought about this area myself - indeed it was quite a lot of thinking when designing Solstice Wars. I disagree that your options are the only ones though... IMHO the best option (for an alternative that is) would be to go for hexagon shaped tiles. They would then all fit and still create a game world. Your triangles struck me as a bit bizzare as the sides would not be equal! You would be better going with equalateral triangles, which again would allow for a matching game world...

All this said, it depends if you are going for tiles to play with what's already there or, in my case, going for a completely different (standalone) take on the game.

Novelty: How were those excellent river tiles created? I do like them and very pro-looking they appear.

I just got the image of the mini-expansion and used that in photoshop to create those.

I have been thinking about Tobias' idea and the discussion about tunnels. Its got real possibilities and I don't think you have to represent the tunnels in 3-D at all. You simply need to show the tunnel entrances which can be done in 2-D easily, just like magic portals. Some ideas:

1. Three or four sets of paired tiles showing among other usual features a tunnel entrance. A pair of entrances identified by colour or shape becomes connected when the second tile of the pair is drawn and placed. If a follower meeple is placed at either end of the tunnel it can move freely at any time along the tunnel to affect the majority for scoring, hide from the dragon, etc. It could be removed at the scoring of one feature but must be removed when both are scored.

2. Each player has two (or more) tunnel entrance pieces in their colour that can be placed with or without a meeple. The function might be the same as per the tiles or more complex.

3. Tunnel entrances as per one of the above but have an underground labyrinth of tunnels all of which are connected. Allow movement in any entrance and out any other ;D

It occurs to me that the tower foundations and/or blocks might be used to simulate some of this . . .  more when we have tried it . . .  Makings of a variant??

You could have tiles with lids on them, and any other such tile placed within .. two tiles from it would be considered as belonging to the same tunnel system.

Or some such :)

With the tile tunnels, there could be a potential problem in that the other side of a tunnel may lead to a completed feature, making it essentially useless. The magic portal is a little more flexible in this regard, since the destination is not rigidly defined. Tunnel pieces might work a little better, but it would take two turns to create both ends. It could be argued that it is too slow/fast. Of course, an entire tile's worth of city is built in a single-turn, so realism is probably not important here.

I've always wanted to see a bridge of some sort. Not a tile, but a new player piece. You would place it to cross an existing road to allow for some strategic farm expanding.

Some more fantasy tiles :)

(http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/rivers3set2.jpg)

These are very good tiles, Novelty. Do these print at actual size?

I have no idea, I haven't had the urge to print them out yet.  I'll try it when I next get access to a printer.

Very well crafted Novelty... However, I'm not too keen on the Tower and river tile. It's just not right to me.... Sorry.

If so you can use the tunnel to smuggle goods, "visit" the princess (lots of ideas right here and now  ;) ) or lay traps!

Well, I haven't tried printing them out yet, but here's a few more permutations for my rivers expansion...

(http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/rivers3set3.jpg)

I just tried printing them, and no, they don't print actual size, at least not from adobe photoshop.  I had to adjust the size to get it right, but it does print out beautifully.

My apologies for the triple post.  Here's how the version I printed looks with 2 Tower tiles and the borders of the original game for comparison.  My apologies for the poor lighting (and poor camera - but blame the photographer for his poor camera skills).

(http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/print.jpg)

The print is slightly smaller than the actual tiles, so I'll have to adjust it to print to the correct size.  However, they do look really good though!

wow!!! really awesome!!

I really like the tiles Novelty they are great!!

Now we just have to find somewhere to get them printed on card stock ;)

You can buy the blank tiles from somewhere online, print these out and stick them on the tiles.  Or for those of you with KC&C and CoC, just stick them over your CoC tiles :)

Edit:  Here's the first quartet and the last quartet printed out in actual size, with 2 tower tiles for comparison.

(http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/print2.jpg)

Does anyone want the resized files to print them out in actual size?  If there is some demand I'll make them available.

I think I messed this up somehow, but here's something without any rivers:

(http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/roundq1.jpg)

And how do you think that you messed them up???

Yes, I demand that you provide the full size files :) ;)

I second that ...  ;D

I'll third it.

Just a thought, what about putting together a Carcassonne Central community set of custom tiles?  We could have the pdf available for download on the site.

Good idea, and maybe also the material from different threads on making your own tiles so that it is all in one place as well.

Good idea Gantry. Thinking Pie in the Sky we can even prepare tiles that Mike wanted that combined elements from the various expansions. Novelty has already done so.

Not to get anyone's hopes up but I was exploring the other threads and I see some of you have looked into companies that might produce these. They either would not or it was cost prohibitive. A friend works for a company that sells printing presses, I will see what I can find out and see if we can find someone to produce them. I will let you know what I find out.

Wish me luck....

OK, the 12 rivers tiles are now compiled in actual size and can be downloaded here (http://www.dukenostalgia.com/junk/rivers3.zip).  Thank you all for all the support and encouragement.  I never thought people would want to even download any of the tiles I make.

Regarding fan made tiles... I've got a question.  Does HiG or RGG allow fan made tiles to be made freely online?  I think we best find out what their conditions are for fan made tiles with images from materials owned by them commercially.

EcoGuy - be aware that we might need permission from either HiG or RGG to get the tiles printed/produced commercially.

Also, I'm now taking requests for fan made tiles.  I think I'll start a new thread (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/forum/index.php?topic=285.0) for it...

Yes.  When we started CC I had asked and was told that as long as we're not using any of the game design elements to profit, it is fine.  I still have that email somewhere if u want me to dig it up.

No need to post the email gantry.  However, it means we can't use it to make money.  I assume the profit you mention is restricted to financially, and not any other forms of profitting such as ideas and stuff :)

That's right, you can't use any of the box or content artwork, make tiles from it, then sell those tiles.